Episode Transcript

Trevor:  Kirk, we're back. Hey, we're back. So, we are still in our heads though in in Spain.

Kirk:  Yes, this is a ongoing story of my my wife Michelle and I and our friends Steven and Connie in Spain, Barcelona, Madrid and some other parts on our way to Morocco. Yeah, so go back to the last episode where we talked about

Trevor: We focus mostly on cannabis clubs. This time it'll be sort of more, a few different things, but more what people are allowed to sell in shops. We're gonna call it sort of a cannabis shop kind of episode.

Kirk:  Yeah. We talked a little bit about the legalities of cannabis in Spain in our in our in our last episode about the cannabis clubs. And I basically said that the legalities of the cannabis framework in Spain is complicated. We know that there's an industrial hemp program because our friend Peter Vermeul, who we'll have episodes on, he grows his CBD dominant cannabis plants in Spain legally. Ironically, though, he can't process the products from his plants. So he sends he sends his hemp outside the country to be processed into medicine. There is a medical program in Spain, but it's very difficult to get license. And and from my research, they are doing an overhaul of the medical program. So they're redoing their medical program as we talk. So that will change as time goes on. I did not speak to anybody truly about the medical program. It's just nobody understands it, though they have one. And Peter, Peter has a process, and we'll get into Peter's story, but he's he he moved to Spain specifically because he was allowed to grow it, and he was allowed to use his patented process to extract the cannabis nutrients from the plant. But in the last I think 10-15 years that he's been in Spain, that that has changed. So there's some things happening in Spain that Peter's thinking of leaving. So again, the laws are complicated in Spain. We do have Peter's voice at the end of this episode. He'll talk a little bit about that. We know that there is no recreational program in Spain. However, we know that cannabis consumption is decriminalized, and we know that people are allowed to consume cannabis in private places.

Trevor: Right.

Kirk:  Cannabis cannot be publicly seen in Spain.

Trevor: But I think you've mentioned either before air or not that there seems to be tourist promotion of CBD products.

Kirk:  Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get there. But but first I just wanna do a quick review because it's this is what makes it so really interesting, is that you're allowed to grow your own cannabis. So again, for those that for those that may not understand, cannabis is includes marijuana and hemp. And typically the world sees hemp as point three or two five, it can't have more than that of THC Delta Nine in it.

Trevor: Right, but that's really the only difference. It's it's the same plant. In fact, one of our previous guests, David Traylor, literally now just calls it THC plus THC minus because it's the same thing.

Kirk:  It's the same. Well, and we learnt that in our in, again seven years ago when we interviewed hemp growers around Dauphin area, because we got we got cannabis plants growing all over Dauphin in the in in in the area, but they are hemp plants, right? So hemp is allowed in Spain, marijuana is not, right? So that's a nuance. So so and if you've seen profiting from selling cannabis, you can get fined. But again, are you profiting from marijuana or hemp, right? So things are things are things are vague. It's it's vague. So so but yet there are these very Americanized Apple store dispensaries selling CBD products. Everywhere. Not well, not everywhere. No.

Trevor: Not not hard to find.

Kirk:  Not hard to find, right? And again, there's pictures on our website, reefermed.ca. I will have pictures. And most of these places are near tourist places. Madrid, there were I saw cannabis, CBD shops in Madrid and Barcelona. I saw them in Valencia, so they're everywhere. And Stephen and I were walking around Madrid. I got some stories from Madrid, but you walk into these shops and they're selling rolling papers, they're selling, they're selling shisha pipes, they're selling tobacco, they're selling cannabis pipes, they're selling rolling paper, rolling boards, you know how you can roll on boards. So this is a head shop.

Trevor: No, I I suck at rolling anything. I'm just that that I've mentioned that before, might as well mention it again. I cannot roll anything.

Kirk:  I I it for me it's a pastime. I like I like rolling. I used to roll Drum tobacco as a teenager. I used to love rolling Drum. Go camping and roll Drum around the campsite. So again, check out our website. There's pictures there. So you walk into these shops and they are literally selling bud. There is cannabis buds on the wall, like you would buy mints. So they're not behind locked drawers and not I'm again there'll be pictures. And you can go up and say, Give me some Blue Dream, please. So so these are in tourist places and what are they selling? And they're not selling marijuana,.

Trevor: Right?

Kirk:  They're selling hemp products.

Trevor: So I'm buying a hemp bud, which again b you know, if our understanding of the definition is all that means is a bud off the flower, off the plant, just like a marijuana bud, but is less than point three percent THC. That's our our guess going in.

Kirk:  Well, let's listen to Sebastian. We met Sebastian in the last in the last episode in the clubs. He was one of the managers of a club. It's a very short blurb, but this is this is a short sentence he told me about about these shops.

Sabastian:  They, it says cannabis but they don't sell cannabis. They sell CBD and they a couple months ago they can sell a type of THC.

Trevor: Kirk, you this happened in in a famous spot in Barcelona, one I've even heard of, right outside of Basilica de la Sagrada Familia, which is a famous cathedral. The why I knew about it is it's famous for taking over a hundred years to finish, and you corrected me when I said it took over a hundred years to finish, did it take longer?

Kirk:  Well they are still building it. It Antoni Gaudi, he's a renowned architect in in Spain, and we saw three of his buildings in Barcelona. We went into one of them. This particular basilica started in 1880, and Gaudi would this is not a podcast about Gaudi, but what's what's what's very interesting about this man is that as an architect in the 1800s, he looked at the world, like how forests are, how trees grow, how a canopy is formed in a forest, how water moves around streams. He went in, took those concepts and applied it to architecture. So his buildings literally have a fluidness to it. And it's it's it's hard to understand what that means. He has an apartment, an apartment that he built an apartment building with the theme of it the apartment building being underwater.

Trevor: You said it kind of reminded you of a Fred Flintstone kind of building.

Kirk:  Well, it's because everything flows. It's it's all built with cement and boulders, but it's it flows. There's there's no ninety degree corner. Things flow. Anyway, this is not a podcast on Gaudi, but but if you want if you want to learn more about this man, it's phenomenal. So right outside one of the biggest tourist places in Europe, there is a CBD store. And now again, we're we're in we're in one of the most go-to places in Europe. So there are accents and skin colors. It is a very international spot and it is arm to arm, shoulder to shoulder, walking through these places. You have to you have to register like months in advance to get a tour of the basilica. So yeah, there's a CBD store. And so I walk into this CBD store, of course, with you know, I think this is our second day in Barcelona. So of course, you know, Kirk Kirk is very interested in getting stories. Michelle's interested in, you know, let's do our touristy things and so and and of of course she's a lot more attentive than I am because I'm I'm just looking at all the people and marveling at the noise 'cause it's you know, again, we live in a town of what, eight thousand people, and you only need to go a kilometer out and you're in the middle of farmland. It's quiet here. In Barcelona, it's just constant hum right? So my senses were just wrapped up. And Michelle nudges me goes, you see the store. What what store? Right there, right in front of you. I'm standing right in front of it. Turn around, you idiot. Turn around. Marijuana cannabis store, hemp shop. It's like like, what the hell? There's pipes, those papers. So I walk in, and of course, there's a tourist right there, and the guy's making a sale. And I'm trying to be polite. I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. Michelle's like, like, we gotta move on. No, no, no. Give me a minute. Hey, I got a podcast in Canada. You know, award winning podcast. Can I get a story? No. Thank you. So I walk away. Right? So and not thinking about it. But as we're walking, again, Michelle goes, Kirk, yeah, turn around. I am cannabis. So I walk into this store and I get a story from the I am Cannabis. People, and again, go to our webpage, reefermed.ca, there'll be pictures. And this is what I learned about these hemp shops in in Spain.

Sahki:  Hello, myself Sakhi Prajapati, and here in Spain it's not legal. The THC normal. We sell not in the list of illegal. That's the product like THC P M N THC J D THCX. Like you know the starting in the USA, they are selling like Delta 8, Delta 9. These are the product we are selling here in Spain. And you know the normal way the THC, you need to go to the social club.

Kirk:  Okay. So you you sell CBD here.

Sahki:  Not CBD but variety of THC, not the real weed. It's same as real but not the real.

Kirk:  So it's non psychotropic.

Sahki:  Yes.

Kirk:  So you sell you sell hemp products here. Yes. Not marijuana. So it's

Sahki:  It's a marijuana like I just show these are the like this are

Kirk: gummies, that sativa.

Sahki:  Sativa.

Kirk: Yes.

Sahki:  And it's a purple haze.

Kirk: Yeah, well it smells like purple hay.

Sahki:  Purple haze, but this is THC J D.

Kirk: What is that? THC

Sahki:  THC is more than twenty variety that THC JD, THC MN, TH CX. So we are selling this product, not THC normal.

Kirk: Oh, so so so so this is THC X?

Sahki:  No, THC X is here.

Kirk:  Okay.

Sahki:  This is THC D.

Kirk: Okay, so but can can some D so can someone get s is it can you get high on this?

Sahki:  Yes, you get high of course you get high and THC normal you are not smoking the THC normal. When it's burned it's transparent into THC A.

Kirk: Well THCA is the acid form, that is the raw form.

Sahki:  Yes.

Kirk:  When you when you heat it it becomes THC.

Sahki:  Yes.

Kirk:  So how does it become THC D?

Sahki:  This is I don't know about that, but this is like the it makes you high.

Kirk:  Okay, it's it makes you high.

Sahki:  Yeah.

Kirk:  But you can only consume it at home.

Sahki:  Yes.

Kirk:  You can't consume it in public. Okay. Very cool.

Trevor: Okay, Kirk. So she's introducing us to terms I hadn't heard of, especially this THC D like dog is my understanding.

Kirk:  P as well. and X?

Trevor: Yeah. So I'm going to go a little bit of a diversion. So when I was in the US at a couple conferences and a few other things, I learned about Delta 8 THC. And this is Trevor's understanding, so you know, feel free to correct me. But it cannabis isn't or nationally legal in the US, but hemp is. So again, just like you were talking about before. So less than point three percent THC. But again, not surprisingly, a lot of people want the the psychoactive effects of THC. So there seems to be this loophole, this this cannabinoid Delta8 THC, not Delta 9 THC, but Delta 8 THC, which I learned at a conference is they discovered a long time ago, over a hundred years ago. So but it was just another cannabinoid. Then they found it was psychoactive. And then I think the important part for the US market is it's not prohibited. I'm not sure where in the gray zone it files, but it's not specifically prohibited. So my understanding is that means that people take hemp, which is they can grow. Take a whole bunch of it, process it into Delta8 THC, and then sell Delta8 THC products. You know, people some people process it better than others, some people might leave too much of the chemical they use to extract it in there. But that so people love it, people hate it, but it it's the need it seems to fill is people want the psychoactive product, but that's not legal everywhere. So Delta 8 THC is, and that seems to be where Delta 8 THC falls in the US. Is this kinda like that? Maybe.

Kirk:  Maybe, yes. I don't know. The way my brain works, I have to step backwards. So we know, and I've repeated, I'm gonna repeat myself, but just for the sake of going into this conversation, cannabis is hemp and marijuana. Marijuana is what we consume, the psychoactive process, it's THC plus, whereas hemp is THC minus. These products, THCP, THC X, THCO, I went on the on the website, I went on a website, CheefBotanicals.com, and this is how they, and I'm gonna quote here and do a little reading. "THCP, tetrahydrocannabiphorol, newly discovered cannabinoid is making waves in the cannabis industry, known for extremely high potency. These products will get you high." So when when you're buying these products from these Spain stores, you're gonna get high. But it's not going to be your typical Delta 9 high. I did not buy one of these products. I did not buy one of these products. And I did not buy one of these products because what I do know about Spain laws is you cannot consume cannabis products in public. But they're selling it to tourists. So it's like, guys, where are you consuming these? Anyways, so THCP is ushered in a new era of hemp products, offered an experience that stands apart from your traditional THC products. This is this is a company that's selling this, right? So they're promoting it. And other cannabinoids like Delta 8 and trending THCO. The latest addition to this growing catalog of products is the THCP flower. Although it's still new to the scene, many feel THCP flowers is a game changer changer for the hemp industry. For both seasoned cannabis enthusiasts and curious newcomers, the THCP flower offers some intriguing possibilities. However, THCP flowers also possess several questions about the effects, the legalities, and purchasing sources where you're getting this stuff from. If you're curious about the THCP flower, our guide will demystify it and give you the recording. So, anyways, you go on, you can Google this stuff. But essentially, it's my understanding, these are hemp products.

Trevor: Right. So below 0.3% THC, but it says nothing about the amount of this THCP our understanding a different either a different cannabinoid or a cannabinoid that's been tweaked.

Kirk:  Correct. Now you'll remember that we we interviewed Mickey in Texas and she has her Baked Goods episode where she is putting these products into baked goods and you can buy and she sent us a baked good, so we have to make that cake.

Trevor: Well you'll have to make that cake.

Kirk:  But this is this and and if you remember during that interview I kept saying to her, How are you doing this? How are you selling cannabis products when federally it's illegal?

Trevor: Delta8 delta 8 THC.

Kirk:  Correct, which is a hemp product. So so we learnt that we learned that hemp is a sativa plant, right? I learned that a few years ago when we had the farmers here. So we also have the THCX, which is a new synthetic cannabinoid that is about to primate to get into the industry. It's about to be entered into the industry. Extractors make this compound by attaching a trio of organic groups together to the delta 8 THC component. So this creates something called a delta-8 ester, which is colloquially known as THCX. So THCX is not a natural cannabinoid, nor will you find it in any traces amounts of hemp or marijuana plants. However, professionals utilize hemp plants to extract the compounds they need to create these cannabinoid esters. In general, this cannabinoid is still very new. Many places aren't even selling the products. This is because we don't know the whole lot about it. So so these guys are selling hemp products that have been manipulated to give you a high, a psychotropic effect.

Trevor: Right.

Kirk:  But we don't know anything about it. So it's like I'm a proponent of cannabis people because all the reasons 160 episodes will tell you. But as a Registered Nurse, I'm gonna suggest that you be very, very cautious with these new products 'cause 'cause they're synthesized cannabinoids. They're not whole plant extracts.

Trevor: Yeah, no, I think that's fair and just the whole yeah, obviously we're very pro cannabis podcast, and some would argue there's not enough research on the effects of CBD, THC. We'd argue that, you know, there there's a bunch and more coming, and what we've seen so far seems like it's a good they're good and safe products, but I don't think anyone would argue that there is a ton of research yet on what THCX does. And it's definitely an un unlike buying cannabis products in Canada, this seems completely unregulated. So you know, the the usual pharmacist worry is what that says on the outside of the bottles that wasn't on the inside of the bottle. I it doesn't seem like there's any regulation. So again, definitely use with caution.

Kirk:  But know these products are are sold in, you know, elderly proof bags. Yeah. You know? They are they are colorful. They are marketed. I mean again there are pictures on our webpage. I've taken pictures of these products. And yeah, I it's again it's that it's that whole ingenuity of humans, right? Marijuana is illegal, but hemp's not. What can we do with hemp?

Trevor: Yeah. Well, it's THC is illegal, so we're gonna find but but people want the THC to feel high, so here's here's the workaround.

Kirk:  Well, but here's the workaround using a hemp plant to manipulate the hemp plant to give you the psychotropic effect the marijuana plant gives you.

Trevor: Right because the THC part is doing it.

Kirk:  Correct. But but but how are they doing it? Now I'm gonna save I'm gonna save the punchline because Peter gets into that later in this episode. But right now, let's meet Nacho. Now Nacho's in Madrid, and Steven, you met Steven, well, you didn't meet Stephen. I talked about Steven in the in the last episode because Steven accompanied me to the Madrid Biohazard Cannabis Club. Where Steven and I are walking to what we thought would be another cannabis club, and we stumble into Nacho's store. And his website will be on our webpage. And he is a CBD based store, and he's all about medicinal cannabis. Like this guy, opposed to the other lady that we just talked to, who's talking about the THCX, this fella really focused on the CBD products. Now you walk into his store, his store would be like maybe maybe ten, maybe maybe five meters deep and maybe ten meters wide, and you can buy your pipes, you can buy your rolling paper, and on the wall, he's got his CBD products in colorful packaging. And this is his story. So please introduce yourself and tell me about your shop.

Nacho:  Okay, I'm Nacho yeah.

Kirk:  sorry Nacho?

Nacho: Nacho.

Kirk: Nacho.

Nacho: From Legalizit and we are a little very little shop in Madrid we are opened like two years ago and I know I can tell you about the situation of cannabis in Spain.

Kirk:  Please.

Nacho: So in Spain there is a lot of culture of cannabis but we don't have the own powerful like country to have legal THC. We have very old culture we have Morocco is near to us we have very good weather I think it's like California weather something like that and people here smoke a long time ago but we can decide no like Europe or Germany not now but we don't have powerful to all people there is like in all countries there is a lot of information about the bad ways of cannabis but if you look for information a little bit you can know that this is not true. So in Spain we have very good movement about social clubs smokers. I think they sport to other countries I mean the way they make the clubs here is very popular and is the only place you can get weed.

Kirk:  So in in Spain, you're allowed to grow plants at home.

Nacho: Yeah. So the only rule is it's not possible to watch on the street because it's some about some rule about civil I mean the only problem is no one can see in the street.

Kirk:  So but you you're allowed to grow how many plants at home?

Nacho: Nobody knows.

Kirk:  Okay.

Nacho: I mean suppose I talk with other people and they tell me there is no limit but if they some they watch something regular on you like money or you are dealing or something that that's the problem. But if this is for own consume. Consume?

Kirk:  Yeah.

Nacho: Supposed to be not limit of plants, but I don't know. So people say three, two

Kirk:  Something yeah, okay. So your shop you sell only CBD's plants. So you sell hemp.

Nacho: Yeah.

Kirk:  Not marijuana.

Nacho: no.

Kirk:  Hemp?

Nacho: No. All less than 0.3 like legally here.

Kirk:  So what you've got here, you've got Bud sitting right here.

Nacho: Yeah.

Kirk:  So these are where is this bud grown? Where is this marijuana, where is this hemp grown?

Nacho: The most of them come from France and Italy.

Kirk:  Okay, so you import it.

Nacho: Yeah, in Spain is we cannot grow. Is that another point? We cannot grow.

Kirk:  Okay, so can I just pitch can I pick this up?

Nacho: Yeah.

Kirk:  So this this here is amnesia CBD eleven percent CBD.

Nacho: Yeah.

Kirk:  And one gram is for six Euros. And that's a clean can I can I smell it?

Nacho: Yeah. they don't smell too much now in summer because the hot

Kirk:  Okay. So what do people why do people buy the CBD here? What do they do they buy it from medicine? Do they buy it

Nacho: Yeah, I mean for taste, different options. People who want to stop to they like to smoke but they don't want to get high.

Kirk: Right.

Nacho: People who knows the benef the benefits for.

Kirk:  Yeah.

Nacho: I mean you know like smoke is like a ritual. Some people love it smoke and obviously CBD is better than tobacco, one hundred percent.

Kirk: Okay.

Nacho: Yeah.

Kirk:  Eighty eighty-seven percent CBD?

Nacho: Yeah, insulated.

Kirk:  Oh this is like a hash.

Nacho: Its moon rock

Kirk:  Its moon rock.

Nacho: It's the one with insulated outside.

Kirk:  Moonrock white.

Nacho: Is like all countries, different levels. The people who like the small bus as the softest one and the other people need crumble or something more strong to

Kirk: Okay.

Nacho: Or them?

Kirk:  This is very interesting. so their small jar,  can I take a picture of that?

Rene:  All right, that's as far as we're going to go in this episode. It's Rene here back in the studio, producer of Reefer Medness, the podcast. In the next episode, Kirk is going to continue his conversations in Madrid as far as trying to discover the ins and outs of the shops, the cannabis shops in Madrid. Thank you very much for listening to Reefer Medness. Make sure to tell your friends and try to follow us wherever you can follow us. Thank you.