Episode Transcript

Audio Transcript

Trevor: Kirk, we're back.

Kirk: Yeah, hey, how's it going?

Trevor: Good, really good. Nice day, a little smoky, but you know, that seems to be our summer.

Kirk: We haven't had rain in a while.

Trevor: We haven't had rain in a while. True.

Kirk: A couple things here, this relationship that I have with Mickey, we started it in January. I think I was sitting at my computer, you know, doing some research and I got on social media and I saw her social media on Instagram, High Society Hemp Co and I said, hey, you'd be a really good, really good interview, we should arrange something. She said, yeah, let's do it. And then what happened and you'll learn in the interview and I don't want to give it away right away, but you'll learn in an interview that once again, we have found somebody that went on a cannabis journey, personal journey with cannabis and ended up with a business at the end.

Trevor: No, I think that's a good tease, a good tease on the way in, not giving too much away.

Kirk: Yeah I don't want to give a lot away because this is another one of those conversations where I had to just stop and listen because what a compelling story she has and again I think you can hear that the conversation builds. The conversation builds and then I backtrack about five bases and then it builds down another branch and then it builds and I have to stop and go back so there's a lot of going back and forth but it was I really enjoyed the conversation and again, I wish that I had more time with her. It's sort of like in two days, I interviewed two women who are passionate, Janna Champagne, which was a previous episode and this and Mickey. And she only goes by Mickey. That's even on her web page is just Mickey. And yeah, I just enjoyed this conversation. What do you think going into?

Trevor: It was really, really good. I'm going to make an odd, odd connection, but it's the way my brain goes. So you've heard of PB&J as in the sandwich. So I was listening to Bill Nye, the science guy who is now head of the Planetary Society, and he's got another for uh uh, what the acronym for PB and J and that is passion, joy, and beauty. And I think, uh, I think Mickey has got a lot of, uh a lot, a lot of that in her story, a lot of PB and J passion, joy and beauty in this, in the story. And I hope you listen, enjoy it as much as I did.

Kirk: Yeah, do you want to just jump right into the interview? we can we come out of it?

Trevor: Absolutely.

Mickey: Hi, I'm Mickey and I am the owner of High Society Hemp Co. In Lake Worth, Texas.

Kirk: We've been getting a lot of Texas stories lately, and it hasn't been on purpose. It just seems like I've just been finding a lot stories in Texas. We met on social media, and I was very intrigued with your business. You have a, you have High Society Hemp, CBD infused cooking products. That's sort of, that's sort of where this story was going to begin for me but as I know you've also had a journey so I guess I guess Mickey please just let's let's talk about your story share your story with our audience and why you started this business.

Mickey: Of course. Well, my husband was diagnosed with terminal cancer six months after we were engaged. We went to the state's compassionate care list for help for his symptoms from chemotherapy and things like that to help him get through. And it was ended up costing us around seven to eight hundred dollars a month, which with a family of five, that's just not feasible, especially when we've lost one income due to cancer. So I started looking around and trying to see if I could find solutions to the problem. And we turned to out of state. So we were going out of the state and bringing things back home for him to use that way. But, me being a mom and a wife, I didn't want to get into legal trouble that way, so I started brainstorming of how can I solve this problem myself? How can I sell this problem right here at home? And I turned to the legal CBD business. And... Since my husband wasn't able to smoke or anything like that because he had cancer in his lungs, I turned to edibles. I feel like that's the underrated market. And if you can eat and then I feel like you are able to get nutrients in. And as long as your nutrition is, sorry, as long your nutrition has kept up, you're more healthy. You're able to fight cancer. So as long he could eat, and then if there were edibles on top of, he could be even more. So that was kind of the... The direction that I lean just to help him be able to get through cancer a little bit easier.

Mickey: What was it about the Western medicine and cancer care that wasn't working for you two?

Mickey: Uh, he was on a lot of opioid painkillers and like I said, he had terminal cancer. He had a 15% chance to survive five years. Uh, He just passed away this last May, unfortunately, but he did survive that five years, the Western medicine that he was being given was high, high doses of methadone, fentanyl, things like that, things that were taking his time away from his family because he was just out of it from those types of medicines and he was, just more miserable than he was comfortable.

Kirk: Okay. Okay. So you found that CBD, you did your own research about cannabis and Texas is a legal medical state.

Mickey: Well, Texas is not a legal medical state per se. We do have the compassionate care list, but it is not legal as far as medical wise for anybody who could get a medical card or anything like that. And it's definitely not legal recreationally so.

Kirk: Okay, it's not recreational either?

Mickey: No, it is not.

Kirk: Okay, so how do you go about starting a CBD business in a state that is not legal?

Mickey: Lots and lots of research, lots and lots of research and red tape, unfortunately. But there is a process that you can go through through the state and get your license and there's a lot of background checks and things involved in that. And then, you know, putting your product out there has to be third party lab tested. There's a lotta red tape to go through, but if your due diligence is done, you can get it done.

Kirk: So you, and again, timeline. So your husband lived for five years, six months before the marriage in your engagement. So you got engaged and then six months later, he was diagnosed and then you've got married and you're married for five year is good on you. That was lovely. And then you started your business. How long ago?

Mickey: I started my business in 2023. He was diagnosed in 2020. So we did go through quite a few of months of miserable for him. He went through eight different types of chemotherapy, trying to fight this for his family. But in the end, cancer won, unfortunately.

Kirk: Mm-hmm, and I'm sorry for that. So is your business still on the go? I see I'm on the webpage right now. I still have, you're still producing?

Mickey: Yes, absolutely. I feel like I owe it to my community to make sure that people like my husband who either want or need access to things like that have access to thing like that. I do offer the states only infused CBD baking mix so that you can make edibles at home. Essentially everything's already done for you. Everything's already infused. All you need to do is add your eggs, your milk, your butter and then put it in the oven and you're done. So you'll have edibles on hand.

Kirk: Wow, okay. So yeah, I'm looking. So CBD cooking, you have CBD oils, CBD spices, seasonings, you have cake mixes, drink mixes, and edibles. So you must, I mean, you're obviously sitting in your kitchen. In Canada, we would have to have a commercial kitchen. So do you have to, do you own a kitchen? Did you rent a kitchen

Mickey: Unfortunately, I'm not there yet hoping to get there with the business, but in Texas, there is a law called the cottage law where I can make up to a certain amount of money selling baked goods from my home kitchen before I need to get a commercial kitchen. Unfortunately, I'm not there yet, but hopefully I'm on my way.

Kirk: Well, good, good on you. And and so your business must be Texas, Texas centric.

Mickey: Yes, absolutely. Texas is my home has been my home for 40 years. And like I said, I think I owe it to my community who's been lacking this type of medication or treatment or whatever you'd like to call it in this area for so very long.

Kirk: Okay and your customers therefore are also Texas customers you cannot ship out of state.

Mickey: I can ship out of state. Thankfully, my products are legal in 46 states, so I can ship wherever I need as long as it's within the 46 states. But yes, I do primarily do my business within Texas, but I'm hoping to branch out pretty soon.

Kirk: Okay, and international. I mean, we're in Canada here. So someone, one of our listeners who want to make a birthday cake using CBDs could get a product sent to Canada?

Mickey: Absolutely.

Kirk: That'd be fantastic. Let's talk a little bit more about your husband if that's okay. So let's talk about cannabis as medicine for him. How did that work?

Mickey: Like I said, it was giving him more life. It was giving him the chance to not have to take those medications that were making him tired or making him woozy or making him not be able to drive or, you know, spend time with his family consciously. He was either, you know, asleep or just kind of not there on like a high state, but, you know, more of like, more zombie-like than anything. So thankfully, CBD and a mixture of THC helped him get through those days. Albeit with a happier attitude because that's the benefit from the plant, but he was able to participate in life more than anything. And I think that's what was really important to him is to actually have the time that he had left with his family.

Kirk: Again, this could go on for hours, we'd talk about how this is, and I admire the diligence of you doing this for your family and for your fiancé, which is your husband, and you have children, you have children as well.

Mickey: Three, yes.

Kirk: Okay, and so they obviously enjoyed their father's participation in life. So let's talk a little bit about Western medicine. So here you are, I'm sure, in Texas following the rules. And as a nurse, hospitals can be foreign places and ugly places and not always accommodating places. Though I must admit my experience with cancer care in most states and most provinces, cancer care practitioners are very caring people. How did your therapeutics you were doing at home work with the Western-style medicine. So, I mean, the doctors had their therapies and you're doing your therapies. How did they jive?

Mickey: They actually went hand-in-hand, really. I feel like the medication that I was giving him, as far as cannabis and things of that nature, were helping him offset the side effects from the Western medicine. Because like I said, he was on eight different types of chemotherapy, so nauseous was an understatement. And that really did help him not have those side effects that he was going to have from the western medicine. And, thankfully... It was there and unavailable to him. Because if it wasn't available to him, he would have had to stick with Western medicine and God knows where he would've been or how he woulda felt. Because I know if he wasn't able to eat, if he was able to keep up his nutrition, he wasn't able to fight cancer, essentially. If your body's not healthy, you're not able to do anything.

Kirk: Is cannabis part of the Texas cancer routine?

Mickey: It is, as of 2020, I believe they added it to the Compassionate Care List, which is far too late in my opinion.

Kirk: Well, well, at least it's happening, obviously. But but okay, so can I can I dig a little deeper into that? How? How did your interaction then did the doctors and the nurses help you through it? Pharmacists? Were pharmacists involved with this care? Did he use less of the pharmaceuticals when you started the CBDs.

Mickey: Oh yeah, absolutely. He did use less of the medication they were giving him as far as seeing using CBD and THC to offset those types of things. His doctors were aware that he was using THC and CBD as therapy for the side effects of chemotherapy, but they weren't gung-ho on recommending it. They're like, well, we need to know that you're using it, but we don't recommend it from a medical standpoint. But I still like the doctors are obligated to say they don't recommend it, but I feel like some of them were leaning towards, hey, that's a pretty good idea, but they couldn't legally tell me that as far as like a medical doctor.

Kirk: Okay, but clarify for me. Just earlier you said that in 2020 it became part of the Texas Therapeutics. So explain what that means. It's part of the therapeutics, but the doctors don't recommend it? That's confusing me.

Mickey: Right. His oncologist didn't recommend it as far as, you know, saying, hey, go ahead and go do this. So she wasn't, she couldn't tell us to go use these products, but she needed to know that we were using them. As far as the Texas Compassionate Care List, it was a completely different doctor that we have to see. It wasn't even a doctor that was involved in his cancer care. It was actually a different third party doctor that we had to go see and pay an extra fee for every month to get a prescription for him to have any sort of THC or CBD.

Kirk: Okay, so that's that's, that's important information. So you were working with a cannabis physician, cannabis centric physician.

Mickey: Yes, sir.

Kirk: So here's the question. Was that physician talking to your oncologist? Were they sharing information?

Mickey: No, they were not in team with each other, they were not communicating. It was just me having to, you know, relate to the doctor that this is what we were doing.

Kirk: Curious, curious. So as you started with the cannabis therapy, were you noticing him using less of the pharmaceuticals?

Mickey: Absolutely. He didn't like to take medication as it was. And when he was in the thick of it, he was taking up to 32 pills a day. And that's a lot, especially when you don't like to take medications. So, yeah, he was braver than he should have been. He took it with a gain of salt and tried as hard as he could to lean towards more towards CBD and THC. So he didn't have to rely on those other medications. And I did notice him pulling back on like the pain medication and things like that. The particular case that he had was very painful. It was in his chest wall. So every time he took a breath, it would hurt. So can you imagine, you know, as many breaths do take a day, everything, everything hurts all the time. So once he did start CBD and THC I could see that he was happier. He was more jovial. He like joke around with his friends and his family a lot more. I felt like in a mental state, he was in a better condition than he would have been on these other medications.

Kirk: So, who were the prescribers of the pharmaceuticals? The oncologists?

Mickey: Yes.

Kirk: So, as you're working with the cannabis doctor, and was it a doctor or herbalist? What's the...

Mickey: The title was doctor, so we were led to believe it was a doctor. Everything was done over the phone, so it wasn't actually in an in-person meeting or an in person appointment with a doctor, everything was over the phone.

Kirk: Interesting and was he Texas doc or she was she?

Mickey: Supposedly yes

Kirk: Okay, so you don't even know the location, you just...

Mickey: Nope, no address, nothing, just a website and a doctor's name.

Kirk: Okay, so now I'm wondering, did you go to a parking lot to get a phone number or how did you find the person?

Mickey: No, well, they had, I believe at the time, three dispensaries that were able to fill the prescriptions and you had to drive either to Dallas or another hour away to meet up with the people who were bringing the prescriptions to a location, which was usually like a, well there was one time it was a parking lot, but then it's usually like an herbal store or something like that where they would meet you in a general area and then fill your prescription there at a card table they set up inside of the store. So it was very very non-professional.

Kirk: Interesting

Mickey: It was very, uh, it was interesting to say the least.

Kirk: Well, hence, I'm talking to you. I find this fascinating. So and I want to get into your business, but I'm finding this therapeutic as a nurse, you know, I want to get in to this. So here's your husband using the CBD and the THC. Was he doing it orally? Drops or your cake?

Mickey: Then he had yeah, he had gummies and he had oils but what he was being prescribed was around five to ten milligrams a day.

Kirk: Okay.

Mickey: Which was not going to cut it. Unfortunately. I mean he he was a recreational smoker as it was so he was already used to that and adding five to 10 milligrams of an edible a day wasn't going to cut what he needed. So that's I guess essentially what led me into this business is that I could provide what he need on a more therapeutic dose than what he was receiving.

Kirk: Was he also a tobacco smoker or asbestos miner? With any understanding where the cancer came from or lifestyle?

Mickey: Yeah, unfortunately, his cancer came from his father. His dad was in the military and he got cancer from his service time. And it's the cancer that my husband has, the germline cancer, so it came from his dad genetically, unfortunately. So that's how he ended up with it.

Kirk: Okay, sorry. I just thought because you said he was a consumer of cannabis. I wanted the audience to understand. Okay, so now going back to working with this online cannabis doctor. So what did the Western oncologists and the whole cancer program, because my understanding of cancer programs, you start belonging to a family, right? When you go into the cancer ward, it's sort of a family environment that everyone knows everybody. So all of a sudden... Your husband is now using cannabis and they must see a change in him.

Mickey: Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Kirk: Are they documenting it? Are they?

Mickey: They they will they would write there they asked him how he was feeling that day you know you know how many times have you vomited how many time is that the other and and they started noticing that was going down and they would ask you know are you changing the medicine are you giving to him at different times or what's happening at home because you know I was very diligent about you know I gave him the medication at this time this one at this this for that everything was documented on my side because it felt like I had the most control that way over helping him. But they were starting to notice like, is Is he having less symptoms, side effects, things like that? And they would think like, oh, you're doing good, you doing great. And as far as I know that it helped him and I feel like it did help him as far as going from being a 10 on the nausea level to being like maybe a five or a six, but there's no telling how it would have been without it, because this is our first time with everything, so. I would like to say to help. I feel like it has genuinely helped him. And I have personally seen the side effects in him, but as far as the medical standpoint, I can't tell you how that really went, unfortunately.

Kirk: I'm just trying to put myself in that place as a practitioner. I do have a wee bit of experience working within cancer care programs as a manager opposed to a practitioner, but so I've got this client coming in and so there must've been a notable difference in his analgesics that he was taking, a decrease in your expense of the pharmaceuticals he was taken, and they didn't sit down and talk about that. They didn't, like ask you like we noticed you got you didn't pick up your prescription last week. Nothing like that

Mickey: I feel like when you're involved in something like terminal cancer or you have something so detrimental as terminal cancer, you just get pills pushed off on you anyway, whether you want them or not. So he was on hospice for quite some time as managing care, and they would just bring pills by, like an entire bottle of methadone, and I'm like, I don't need this. Please stop bringing these medications by. To at a point where he was already on certain medications like methadone and he had to continue taking those because he was dependent by that point. So he had keep taking certain medications to a point but he stopped taking other medications on top of. So he was, say he was on methadones and Dilaudid at the same time. He would not take the Dilaudide and he'd just stay on the methadrone because that's what he was all ready on. So that I think that help carried him through.

Kirk: Right. Okay. And did you work in hospice? Was that in a facility or at home?

Mickey: At Home.

Kirk: Okay, again, I congratulate you on that. And that's the wrong word to say congratulate, but I appreciate that you kept your husband home. You, in our emails back and forth, I could get a feeling from you and you obviously care for him very much. Did you work with other patients within the cancer department? Did you liaison with others that were using cannabis?

Mickey: I didn't. We went through the entire cancer journey here at home in Texas during COVID. So unfortunately I wasn't allowed in a lot of appointments. I wasn t allowed to go to chemotherapy with him or sit with him and those types of things. So it was more of a he was kind of on his own for a little while. So I didn t really get to talk to a lot the patients here in Texas. We did transfer to an out-of-state facility in 2023 when he was given three to six months to live. And then... We went to a trial out of state and that gave for another two and a half years. So I wasn't able to talk to patients there just because of legal reasons and things like that and a lot of the patients were underage in that facility. So I didn't want to overstep my bounds or anything like that, but anytime I talk to somebody out at the grocery store, because I'm a very friendly person, I'll talk to anybody. I'll start to the person standing in line in front of me and we'll get to know each other. So if they're going to tell me, you know, I'm having this problem and I'm going Let's just have you try Cannabis? Have you tried CBD? Have you tried THC? My aunt even takes it for her knee replacement. I mean, I'll tell anybody who will listen, the benefits of CBD and THC. But unfortunately, I wasn't able to share that with other cancer patients.

Kirk: So going back to the cannabis therapy, you're prescribed 10 milligrams a day. Did you receive the cannabis as flower or did you receive the cannabis oils or tinctures? How did you see the cannabis?

Mickey: He had an oil and gummies. The gummies were 2.5 milligrams if I remember correctly and I believe that he got a bottle of oil that I think was 100 milligrams total so it was about a milliliter for 100 milligrams but it was costing around 90 to 120 dollars per prescription so the bottle of oil 120 dollars the gummies 90 dollars and it was yeah it's a little expensive for 50 milligrams to 100 milligrams of THC.

Kirk: And does that segue us now into your business?

Mickey: Yes.

Kirk: OK. So let's talk about your business. How do you source your and in your web page, it talks exclusively CBD. So you are a CBD business.

Mickey: Right. I use full spectrum CBD and the hemp flower to use hemp-derived THC, so everything is the CBD flower.

Kirk: And hemp derived. So, okay, okay. So there's absolutely no THC in it. Okay. And we've...

Mickey: Yeah, there's THC in it. It's hemp-derived THC though. That's the legal THC here in Texas. We're not allowed to use the one for marijuana, so it is all hemp-derived and Delta 9 THC and full spectrum CBD.

Kirk: Okay. We've interviewed, like I said, we've done a lot of Texas interviews, and we have an episode on a young Texas farmer, Texas A&M, who is growing hemp, and he's getting his PhD now in hemp. And if you go back on our episode, you'll find those. So you're sourcing hemp flower, and so that's legal for you to do that?

Mickey: Yes.

Kirk: But you're no longer on the compassion list anymore, correct? So, but, but you're still allowed to source it?

Mickey: Yes, and since I'm licensed with the state of Texas and the Department of Health and Human Services, I am able to source flower that way.

Kirk: Okay and so you're in your kitchen it looks very tidy um so you bring you bring in a pound of flower and you so tell me about how that tell me the process of how you make cake dough.

Mickey: Well, actually, it's a little bit more simple than that. I am actually using a water soluble THC and full spectrum CBD. So it's an isolate. It is a nano powder. So it is going to be 70 percent more bio available to your body. So it can absorb 70 percent more than a traditional edible. So I'm not using traditional methods. So everything is like it's already infused for you. It's a water-soluble powder. So it not going to stink up your home, unfortunately, like the traditional methods and you're gonna barely taste it in your food, which is a bonus because a lot of edibles can be a little sour or not the greatest tasting, but you can't really taste it with a water soluble powder.

Kirk: So you're not processing the cannabis yourself, you're buying it already in a nano product.

Mickey: Yes, I'm working with a Texas company with for my products here.

Kirk: And they must be intrigued by you. They must be working really close with you. I can't imagine there's too many of you out there.

Mickey: I think there's only 8,000 in Texas that are far as far as retails. I'm not really sure how many manufacturers there are. Um, I know my license is number 975, so there can't be too many.

Kirk: All right, let's slip back to your husband. You're noticing he's whacked out on pharmaceuticals and I completely appreciate that. I've seen it. So you decided to go with cannabis. So did you decide all of a sudden just start cooking your own cookies with a little bit of CBD and THC? You must have done a lot of your own research.

Mickey: Oh yeah, absolutely. I was using traditional methods with a flower that was not legal in my state. So I was outsourcing that illegally. Unfortunately, I hate to admit that, but like I was saying earlier, I didn't want to get in trouble. I've got three kids and a husband to take care of who has cancer. So who's going to take of everybody if I'm in jail? So then I started to do my research about how can I solve this problem in my home. I have a problem at my back door. How do I get it to go away? So that's when I did all my research about how can I put something into food that he's gonna be able to tolerate. Because like I said earlier, some edibles are just not that great tasting. I mean, to be honest, they do their job, but they're not that easy to stomach. And if you're already nauseous, why would I give you something that's gonna make you more nauseous? So I was trying to figure out how to make it taste less like an edible and more like food.

Kirk: Okay, okay, so you weren't able to source flower and we're talking about the bud, the flower from the cannabis plant, not flour in your cake, right? Just because it can be a confusion. So could you not source cannabis flower through his medical license that he had?

Mickey: No, at the time it was only oil or gummies, I'm not sure if it has changed since then because we were no longer on the list, but at the time it only tinctures, oils and gummies.

Kirk: So you had to, and I'm picturing, like we interviewed Ethan Zong from Survivor, and he was telling us that he's in New York City with cancer, and he's a back alley buying his cannabis in a back ally. So you are basically in a black alley online buying online flower from another state, having it shipped to you, you got what, an ounce of flower in your kitchen and you're saying, what do I do with this?

Mickey: Right because being a teenager I knew how to make edibles even if they were not legal at the time.

Kirk: Okay, now you're giving yourself away.

Mickey: So, like I said, I was in my kitchen, had this beautiful plant in front of me and what do I do with this at this time? I don't want my house to smell god-awful for traditional methods and I want my husband to be able to eat this. I want him to be not taste what's in it so that he can't eat more of it, giving him the opportunity to eat more actual food. So I made, you know, cookies, cakes, whatever I made. I don't even remember at the time. He had some and he's like, I can't stomach this. And I said, okay, I understand. You know, you're nauseous already. It, you now, isn't the greatest taste. So that's when I did my research about what can I do to make this better? And then I found a company online that had the nano powder. I was looking into products and I looked today, is there a baking mix? Is there something that doesn't taste as bad? Is there's something that I can make? Already done for me? Is there a dough? Is there a bread mix? Is there anything? Is their seasoning? I found a seasoning online and I'm like well that got me thinking a seasoning okay what else can I put this into to make it edible? I know micro dose my eggs with a little bit of the hot sauce powder those types of things.

Thankfully the nanoparticles and the powder that I use is fairly simple. Like I said it's water-soluble and as long as you don't take it above a certain temperature which is 340 degrees, it's stable. I was thinking, hey, I can cook a lot of things at 340 degrees. I can make an entire cake. It might take me a little bit longer as far as in the oven, a couple more minutes, but it's going to bake at 340 degrees and I'm going to have a viable product that I can keep in my freezer or I can keep on hand that I could just get out for him whenever he needs it. So I was just thinking, okay, great, let's make seasonings and spices. Let's make a sugar-free cinnamon sugar so I don't have to put as much sugar to his food. So I was trying to experiment with things like how to make it healthier, how to it make it easier and more accessible to him and how to keep it on hand so whenever he needed it, it was there. And that's when I turned to baking cookies or baking cupcakes or things like that because who doesn't like a sweet treat?

Kirk: Okay, so now you've created yourself High Society Hemp Company. Let's talk about this business of yours. How's business?

Mickey: It's okay. It's been slow, unfortunately, because the last five years of my life has been consumed with cancer.

Kirk: Sure.

Mickey: The last two years of my business, which has been its entire lifetime, has been slow, but that is okay. I feel like as long as I'm still getting out there and showing up every day for my business and for the people who I know rely on my product or enjoy my product, that I'm doing what I need to do. I'll get out there. I'll become more popular. I mean, there's always a want or a need for this type of product. As long as honest and curate my product and make sure everybody knows what's in it and how to use the product properly. I'm going to build my customer base that way on honesty and a helping hand.

Kirk: Well and and and I'm thinking you've only had two months to heal um so so I mean good on you. Yeah. Well yeah but and good on you because um I I think I'm going to have to talk to you in about four or five years again because I just sense something in you you seem to have a drive and um this is all besides this what do you do for a living what what is your background?

Mickey: Absolutely. I have worked in healthcare for about 10 years. I have been a home health aide for about nine of those. I'm a phlebotomist. So I've been in and out of hospitals and my entire childhood, unfortunately, was in and out of hospital. So chaos is where I thrive. So hospitals are where you find the most chaos.

Kirk: Sorry, but every healthcare professional listening right now is also laughing because I see it. And you know what, Mickey, that just explains everything. And I'm going to, again, healthcare aides, home care workers, you guys don't get enough attention. So this really explains and brings it to the fold in how you cared for your husband. So now, here you are, I'm sure you're still picking up shifts, because you've got to pay for electricity, but are you now going to spend more time with the businesses, and where do you see your business and yourself? Because you must be quite a knowledgeable cannabis person by now, so where do see yourself in a year's time?

Mickey: Absolutely. Um, any years time, the hope is a brick and mortar bakery. I am striving to open the State's only and hoping the nation's only cannabis bakery that focuses only on baked goods.

Kirk: Wow.

Mickey: That is my goal.

Kirk: And will Texas, I'm sorry to interrupt, but will Texas allow that to happen?

Mickey: Yeah. As far as I am knowledgeable on the law that I've read, yes, it is going to be treated just as a dispensary, but I will just primarily sell edibles. They will be fresh-baked and they will be, you know, packaged accordingly, labeled accordingly, so they will just be an everyday edible at another just dispensery. So it'll be a little dispensory, but a little bit different.

Kirk: Not a little bit different. Huge. That's a very interesting business model. I mean, you should be able to find some backers on that because really you're correct. I mean a CBD cannabis-based bakery, give me a break. That's gotta be a moneymaker.

Mickey: Yes, I have heard that, um, I won't say the, uh, I guess the chain. I don't want to get in trouble, but I've been compared to a cookie company that's quite popular, but, uh better.

Kirk: Well, I look at your webpage and it's straight out of the 50s. I love it. And like I said, we started talking, gosh, it must be six, seven, eight months ago when we started talkin' and interacting on Instagram there. But I love your webpage, I really do. And I love the feel of that 50s Americana when America was great, I guess. But, sorry.

Mickey: We're working on it.

Kirk: Yeah, you hit working on it. But that's fantastic. How about yourself though? As a healthcare aide, we call healthcare aides up here, with experience, having, you know, worked with cannabis with your husband, do you see yourself being a cannabis consultant in the future? Do you see yourself be a cannabis coach in the future.

Mickey: Uh, yes and no. Like I said, I want to focus.

Kirk: On The Bakery.

Mickey: On the bakery in the business. But absolutely, like I was saying early, education is key. I feel like that's the component that's missing. So, so far removed from an illegal state is the education. Because I get a lot of questions when I'm out at markets selling, like what is this legal? Like, how is this illegal? Like I said, it's a missing component. Nobody knows what they're doing or they're talking about what they are buying. And unfortunately, that's the part that gets most people is they buy a product out of a smoke shop and they have a bad experience. And so they're completely turned off from cannabis altogether. And they're like, well, I had this thousand milligram gummy from the grocery store. And it's like, for one, you shouldn't be eating that much to begin with. And if you ate the whole thing and nothing happened, you're buying a bad product. So I just want people to know that the products that I'm trying to offer are curated. They're gonna be the same experience every time. They're the same thing every time, it's not gonna be something that you just picked up off the shelf and you've had a bad time with.

Kirk: Yeah, I'm wondering if I'm wondering.

Mickey: Jet's flying over.

Kirk: Oh, no worries. I can't hear it. I'm wondering about the cannabis doc. Have you stayed in touch with the cannabis doc that you were working with the canmnabis doc your were working with?

Mickey: No, like I said, it was more just over the phone, a website and a name. I, it wasn't a personal interaction. It was just another customer.

Kirk: Mickey, I'm so glad we had this chance. Is there anything I didn't ask you? Is there anything about your business, your husband, is there anything that you want our listeners to understand?

Mickey: I think we've talked about everything that I could think of, but what I want listeners to understand is that education is key. Research what you're eating, are you taking and consuming, and make sure you know what you're getting. Don't just go buy something off the shelves. Ask questions. Always know what you are putting into your body, and know the benefits of the things that you're putting into the body.

Kirk: I admire what you're doing. I love your backstory. And our experience, Trevor and I have been doing this for seven years and our experience has been when we meet people like you, it all is a passion they have about cannabis because they've gone through the journey. And I can't help but think that you are so far ahead of the curve in Texas that there are other people that when you get time to network with and that will obviously support your business. I can see it not happening because I imagine Texas has a small group of cannabis-centric people that you could be networking with.

Mickey: Yes, absolutely. That is the goal to get myself out there and to introduce myself to the important people to open important doors for me.

Kirk: Well, I hope

Mickey: Yeah, I'm coming through. I'm going to be there. I am going to educate. I will provide to my community in the way that I think is appropriate and the way I think they deserve.

Trevor: Okay so I'm going to do first sort of a throwback to one of our previous ones so the stuff that Mickey sells has nano emulsion particles which make them water soluble so like you can just sort of crack the eggs into the cake mix bake it and you've got an infused cake.  We talked a lot about nano emulsions with Dr. Brent Guppy back in E92. Gimli Glider to Nano Emulsions. Just if you wanted someone to talk a little bit more about the the science of how that works but that's that's on the business part of what she's doing, that sounds like a really convenient business. You know I I like an easy bake cake as much as you know if I could grab a box add add some eggs. In fact I I do sometimes make pancakes quote-unquote, from scratch. You know especially out at the lake it's so much easier to buy a box of pancake mix add some water and have pancakes and I have to bring out you know the flour and the baking soda and the eggs and then that you know easy is good so an easy bake cookie or cake or bagel or whatever that has cannabis in it already, sounds like a great idea.

Kirk: Yeah. And her story, we'll have a link on our web page, highsocietyhempco.com. Her story is compelling. And this is why I didn't want to get into it in the lead is that her husband Nicholas, you know, actually lived longer than he was told he would. And, you know, he got involved with a study in Tennessee, and I think that prolonged his life a little bit more. But what I like about this story is how cannabis pretty much made her life with her husband and her husband's life with his family easier. Um, and that's where this story for me as a nurse was really compelling. And as you can hear me, Trevor, going back and forth about, well, what was the Western medicine doing at this time? And what was Western medicine and doing it this time and, and how she had to go to a, a, uh, medical cannabis doctor online deal with the Western oncologist during COVID.

Trevor: Yeah the the during covid stuck at oh right they've also got to do this when she literally can't go into her husband's oncology appointments because you know this is lockdown. So you know patients had to do a lot on their own without you know the usual supporting family members there with them and uh and yeah and Texas being a I'm not sure i still quite understand it but not really medically legal not rec legal but there seems to be a loophole through this compassionate care list that if you got this online script from a doc you've never met, and then you were even asking her, I think you were trying, maybe even trying to make a joke. Oh, so did you have to go pick this up at in a parking lot? No, no, of course not. Well, other than that one time, Jeesss, other than that, one time when she actually basically had to pick it up in the parking lot.

Kirk: Yeah, and how many times has this happened in our interviews, you know, like Ethan Zong, I picture him being in a New York alleyway picking up his medical cannabis. Yeah, you're right. It was unclear to me. I was trying to probe and get a little bit more about Texas. But again, the story wasn't about Texas, but she created a CBD business in Texas. It's not medically legal or recreational legal. But then, you know, we've also interviewed, you know Texas A&M and, we interviewed growers. So they're growing hemp in Texas. So I think that's what made it legal. Marijuana is not legal, but hemp is. And, you know, and to remind people the definition of hemp versus marijuana,

Trevor: is 0.3% THC I think.

Kirk: Correct. You took my punchline. Correct. Yeah, that's exactly it. So she gets these nanoparticles and off she went. But you know, again, I want to rant and I'm trying not to but how can... I have very little experience with cancer programs except that I had an opportunity is about three years, I think about three years I was managing a cancer department but I was no by no means was I involved with day-to-day care of the patients but I knew the nurses, I knew the doctors that were caring for their patients and that's a caring  community.

Trevor: Yeah so I also found it interesting that because it was hemp derived and I'm not saying if she's right or wrong I was just surprised that she can sell her products all across the US and in Canada and I know it sounded bad when she said you know her doctors want to know what her husband was on which makes sense but couldn't recommend cannabis but I think at least part of that's got to be sort of the awkward situation the doctors are in being in a non-legal state you know it's real tough for a doctor to ethically recommend something that's not legal to use in that state or is questionably legal and the last just because i'm not sure if i've heard this term before i sort of forgot a germline cancer. A cancer you pass directly onto your kids that that's terrible you know you've you've literally done nothing other than being born from this guy and a little bit of looking so just it's not common; it's in less than it's five-ish percent of cancers out there so are directly heritable. Most of the cancer you know how have some genetic component but then some lifestyle component but yeah getting a cancer just from being born or the strong election for one is sucks even worse than more than regular cancer.

Kirk: Correct. Again, as I was saying that I don't have a lot of experience caring for people but I can't, I find it emotionally distressful as a nurse. I find it incredulous as a nurses that wouldn't you see, I mean you must see this as a pharmacist, right? That something's happening with the medication that the guy is using less analgesics and wouldn't want to know why? Wouldn't you want to So, you're getting your pot from... A guy online, like that disconnect kills me.

Trevor: It does and in a perfect world there wouldn't be one but just to give the practitioners the benefit of the doubt you know if someone came into the pharmacy and said you know my ADHD is so much better now that I am using crystal meth, I'm sure I would say something like I really, I, yes, I'm happy you told me that you're on this so I can, you know, help monitor your care, but I really can't recommend that you use crystal meth for your ADHD. So, you know it's more complicated when it's a

Kirk: That's, that's, I gotta stop you, that a bad... bad example

Trevor: What is but it's it's on the but but but on the legal part like when It's not quite legal in Texas But in Texas right now neither is the cannabis so it'd be very difficult for a doc to go, Well, even if you're using this even it's helping you, you know, can I can I recommend it?

Kirk: Okay, I'll give you that. And actually, that's in my notes. So I'll give you that, that yes, the oncologist can't very well say, hey, you know, I recommend you use cannabis. However, you would think that someplace in his notes that the professionals would be tracking this that they are, because cannabis is not an unknown substance in North America. Cannabis is not unknown as having medical, crystal meth has very few medical benefits, but cannabis is not an unknown. So this is where my rant is, is that is that there should be some notes. I mean, Dr. Daeninck, I mean we go back to Dr. Daeninck and he pretty much said to us that he was pushed into it by his patients, Episode 71. So the man must have been studying it and observing it and seeing benefits to it. And of course, cannabis is legal, so it would have been easier for him to do that than the doctors in Texas, but you would still think I mean, I've done this in my practice. I've sat down with my clients and said, well, what are you doing? You know, how are you doing this? And, you know, alcohol affects you this way. Maybe taking Tylenol and giving your kid Tylenols too many times. Like, I have conversations with people about their behaviors and then I document it. And some of the behaviors may not be legal, but I still... Track it. So this is where this is where in the conversation, I keep interrupting or going, let's go back to the medical side for a moment here. What were your oncologists doing at this point? So and and I was fascinated by by her answers and and this is where my rants and my blogs come into play, you know.

Trevor: No, absolutely. And I thought it was interesting. And not also not trying to be an apologist, but she called it hospice care not that we don't call it hospices here, but in Canada, we often call it palliative care, when she kind of felt like her husband was just sort of given a bucket of drugs whether he needed it or not. That's not uncommon in palliatives care. My My pharmacist's complaint is usually they seem to want to do that at 3 p.m. on a Friday and you know make me run around like a chicken with a head cut off and see if we can get some anyway but that's that's just a pharmacist complaint but the palliative care coordinators which around here are almost always nurses, especially if someone's being looked after at home, basically their worst case scenario is someone running out of something at 2 a.m when they can't get a hold of anybody. So I think the whole giving people too much, you know, of their opioids and their everything else is almost par for the course for palliative care or hospice care. You know, I'm sure they're being careful to try and avoid drug diversion, like the drugs being the palliated care, hospice care, opioids are going off into the black market, but you know I don't think they meant anything, any harm or... disservice to Mickey's husband by giving him, you know, extra opioids, but it was really interesting to hear that he felt and she felt that after using the cannabis for a while, the amount of opioids that he needed to use went down dramatically and he felt sort of more cognitively capable to interact with his family.

Kirk: Well, as I as I said to Jenna, sometimes I just wonder why cannabis isn't first line because this is not the first time we've heard this that people who have moved to cannabis have decreased their use of the analgesics. The thing about it gets me is that when they were bringing their their bucket of of medication for them, they would have seen that, oh, you haven't been using these ones. So and also I didn't ask her this I didn t get in the cost because again, I thought, you know, sometimes people don't like talking about money, but I can't help but ask is in the American Texas system, is she paying for all those meds? So then when they're dropping the meds off...

Trevor: One way or the other, like either she's got insurance or, but yes, yes, short answer yes.

Kirk: Yeah, somebody's paying for them. So again, the way my brain works is that, gee whiz, rather than drop off this $250 bottle of analgesics, you know... I'll let you have what you got and I'll take it away. I do get what you're saying that you don't want to run out at two in the morning. I get that. And I do understand that some of the medications, the Dilaudid and the methadone, you can't just abruptly stop those. I get all that. But I just, again, another good cannabis story. And at the very end of the conversation, we learned that she's a health care aide, which again just sort of sewed up her personality. Like I say, I've met I met Mickey online. On social media. We talked back and forth. But even through her words, I knew she was a sensitive soul. And again, I mean, it's just conversations. You can you can read people and stuff. And when I met her online here and zoom meeting, I sensed it. And as soon as she said she's a health care bingo. Of course, you are, you know, of course you are. There's no question that you're your health grade, because I can see it in your personality. And and you know the fact that she cared for her husband at home. I hope I have that kind of strength to do that, you know. I admire people that do that.

Trevor: Yeah and i don't know just not really to play devil's advocate but because I spent a goodly chunk of time in uh long-term care i think don't get me wrong i think the patient may or may not be more comfortable at home but i think there's a little bit too much and if you can keep your loved one at home more power to you you know you're you're a nurse, you're a healthcare agent, you've got you know the the the financial wherewithal to do it but I see people especially in nursing homes isn't exactly the same as palliative care but I I put them on the same spectrum. I also see people keep you know grandma or wife or husband at home too long because the problem you know the the amount of care that the patient gets might not change between home and the hospice bed or the nursing home, but it's so hard on the family. Like if you drop off your wife, husband, grandma, whoever at the care home or the hospices, at least now you can go home and get a decent night's sleep. At least you can continue on with your job. Like the whole, the 24 hour care of a sick or dying relative is so taxing that I just, I... I hope people don't think that they and again someone who worked in long-term care for 20ish years, they aren't terrible places. Hospice and long- term care yes there are terrible stories but the stories that don't make the news are you know you know we have grandma who actually does better in long term care than she did on her own because she's now getting three meals a and some social interaction like there there are good things about know it's going to be different for every family but don't, my little rant here, don't put your family member in hospice or nursing homes too late because then it's just way too hard on the caregiver and if you get a good hospice and a good long-term care place care there can be excellent.

Kirk: Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I've had recent family experience with both of these things. And yeah, as a nurse, I've seen both scenarios. And having somebody in a hospice care with 24-hour care, other professionals, allows you to be family opposed to caregiver. Because sometimes when you're a caregiver, it can affect you being family as well. So yeah. Yeah, you know this is why when I was hearing Mickey's stories, like, wow, I just kept going, wow. I just wow, lady, you know, I can't help but wonder now, you know, her husband has passed like less than two months ago that there just must be this whole deep sigh that went through her entire existence. I mean, yes, she's lost her companion, her life companion, but also that whole continuous 24-hour care. Like, you know, I guess, and I said this to her as I was ending the conversation, I wanna talk to her in three, four years from now. I wanna keep track of her. She's sending me a cake mix. So when we make that cake... Yeah.

Trevor: Yeah, I heard that.

Kirk: I'll call you over. We'll see what it is. But I believe that if she puts that much energy that she did in caring for her spouse, she's going to be a hugely successful person. And again, like the last two episodes, you know, Janna, the nurse who became the herbalist who is now world acclaimed cannabis practitioner.

Trevor: Educator.

Kirk:  educator, and now Mickey, you know, health care aide extraordinaire who came up with a CBD business in Texas, of all places, yes, we will be we'll be following her career because I can't help but think that she puts that kind of energy into her career, she's going to soar.

Trevor: I 100% agree.

Kirk: Alright man I'm Kirk Nyquist I'm the registered nurse and we're found at reefermed.ca

Trevor: I'm Trevor Shewfelt, I'm the pharmacist. Also look for us on all your favorite podcasting platforms under Reefer Medness the Podcast. Give us a five-star review. Say something nice about us in the comments, that's the best way for people to find us. And don't forget about YouTube, Kirk now has our pretty faces on that there YouTube so have a look for us there as well, you can see what we look like. We look surprisingly like Brad Pitt and George Clooney, who knew? And yeah, this was another good one.

Kirk: Yeah, it's another good one and please share us because Meta doesn't like cannabis related postings. If you like us, tell a friend. We can always use one more listener. And if you're in the healthcare industry, go to our webpage and search topics. There's all sorts of topics and the more we interview people, the more, we can relate back to past topics that we've talked about. So yeah, Trevor, another good one. I'll see you on the uptake, enjoy your cabin.

Trevor: Have a good afternoon, everybody.