Episode Transcript

Trevor:  Hey Kirk welcome back. I think this is Reefer Medness.

Kirk:  I believe it's Reefer Medness Episode Two - The Patient.

Trevor:  So I hear you're a nurse.

Kirk:  I'm a nurse I hear you're a pharmacist.

Trevor:  That's what they tell me.

Kirk:  And what are we doing here.

Trevor:  I'm excited about all the shows but this one is really good because this is interesting to people other than us. This is actual patients actual people using whatever you want to call medicinal marijuana cannabis. People are treating their and their ailments with this product.

Kirk:  Well if you remember again if people have listened to the last two episodes, I've approached this as a paper as a research paper. And my question is Is cannabis a medicine and these are three people who definitely say yes. Yeah yeah they say and this is anecdotal I guess and when it comes to.

Trevor:  No Double Blind Placebo Controlled Trials.

Kirk:   no double Blind no Placebo here.  These are real people with real ailments who are who are benefiting from cannabis. So before we get into a discussion.

Trevor:  Who do you have for our music today.

Kirk:  Our Music today is Marc Clement.  he has a new album out. He's calling Crooked Journey and we're going to listen we're going to listen to the first song on that. What makes Marc an interesting guy to listen to his Marc a little bit of a local legend in the sense that on this album he's drawn some of Dauphin's best musicians to play on his album so if you get Marc's CD. You're going to learn a lot about the Dauphin music scene. So let's listen to Crooked Journey.

Trevor:   I like Marc Yeah come back at it.

Kirk:  Yeah. He also you know he also did a gig for the Watson Art Center another plug out to the art scene and if you go to the Watson Arts Center Web page Marc does a song about the building that really for us to live in Dauphin.

Trevor:  While we are throwing out web page is what's our web page.

Kirk:  Reefermed.ca. And I think it's social media which once we have Instagram Twitter Facebook run by much smarter younger people than they have great people are people are doing it for us man yeah. So today we're talking about medicine right. We're talking.I went out and this we have to make sure people understand this. We live in a small community we're introducing our community to our listeners through the music but also just our lives here. Right. Your pharmacist. You are pharmacist in one of the biggest businesses in town. So, you know a lot of people. So what think is complain about that all the time. Yeah yeah walking down the street yeah like going to the co-op just for some coffee cream turns out to be a social engagement. Absolutely yeah yeah. So one of the things we have to be very careful about is we are I am a registered nurse you're registered pharmacist. We have obligations to our Colleges. We can't just go out and use what we have knowledge and go out there and grab somebody.

Trevor:  No there are literal laws there literal personal health information laws that say I can't just you know go through my list of people the store and ask them questions just because I know that they have X.

Trevor:  So we didn't do that. No. Right. But what we did do is it as you so graciously said in the first episode. I've been talking about cannabis a lot in the community and pretty much anybody you know listen to me and that number is growing smaller and smaller. That's why we needed a podcast. We need you. You need a bigger bigger audience. I'm on my pedestal. But what happened is that we found medicinal users by putting a word out and they came to me. Keijo was the first guy wouldn't target. Keijo is a 57 year old professional and he had a horrible accident about 15 years ago and he talks about it in his in his interview. He felt he literally fell out of the sky. If you know Keijo and you know Keijo, I do know Keijo.  A personal friend of both of ours actually and Keijo tells a story about his ultralight. And you got to know Keijo is another passionate man that has projects. So in this part of his life he was flying ultralights in today's sailing sailboats. But now he falls out of the sky. He ends up living in a bed in Gimli in his front room for months. They rebuild the man right. So what happens is that he's told he's told later in life he's going to have pain and he is in his late 50s. He's getting close to retirement and he's living with pain. So we're going to talk to Nabilone user and he's using Nabilone can you explain to what is now Nabilone.

Trevor:  Nabilone is interesting and you know maybe some of our cannabis purist out there won't even consider it cannabis because it's technically not a natural cannabinoid it's a synthetic cannabinoid. And it's been around for at least ten years maybe closer to 20 because up until now cannabis has not been legal to be used as a medicine in Canada but Nabilone alone is you know they tweaked the cannabinoid just enough to make it not THC and now it's legal to be sold by prescription. So it's a cannabinoid.

Kirk:  It's a synthetic THC.

Trevor:  Well it's very similar to THC. We think it does an awful lot of the same with.

Kirk:  We think it does, is there not research on this Trevor.

Trevor:  There is research. It's what we can to research on the THC to compare, right.

Kirk:  Oh there hasn't been the blind double blind studies.

Trevor:  Not not on how well it compares to the illegal substance substance. Which you know again one of our bugaboos about cannabis in general is being illegal, it's hard to do research on. Right. But it's a Cannabinoid similar to THC that hits a lot of the same receptors that THC might possibly even be a little bit more potent than THC.

Kirk:  OK so we talked to him about it and now it's interesting about my interview with with Keijo is that I was sitting at a craft show and Christmas Craft Show Michelle my wife Michelle is up doing her business she's involved with the Watson Art Center. And I was trying to think of patients and I was going to go visit Keijo and it dawned on me, hold on, I knew that Keijo was on Nabilone because I've had discussions with Keijo. Keijo and I have shingled roofs together. We've cut grass together. We work on projects, so I called Keijo and said Keijo. Yeah yeah and Nabilone right. Yeah, I'm doing a podcast. Yeah, I know you've doing a podcast anyone seems to answer you that way.  Can I come talk to you. Yeah why not. So what I have Trevor is that I have the whole thing. And as we play I get out of my car. There's dogs barking and I go to Keijo's place. This is our first interview with Keijo. Dog's everywhere. Knock knock. Hey Darlene how are you.

Darlene:  Did you bring the Mrs.

Kirk:  No I did not. She's working at the Craft Show. What I've talk to the Keijo.

Darlene:  I know hon, he is so happy to see you.

Kirk:  Dogs are always happy to see me... Hey great to see you. How are you. Good. OK good. So thank you for letting me interview today. All right. So I've come to visit you or your rumpus room, there is a TV playing in the background. I guess some. Can you please explain who you are and why you want to talk to us on the podcast?

Keijo:  Ok so my name's Keijo 57 year old middle aged white male getting ready to retire and many years ago 16 to be precise. I was in a tragic plane crash in Gimli and things that surgeons said would occur 20 years down the road with regards to arthritis because of all the joint damage are coming to fruition and over the years my need for pain management has increased significantly to a point where I finally started to find belief through chemistry and primarily opiates. It's a nasty road. And as I get older it's been a continual battle to try to not slip from a dependency to addiction. So, every once in a while, I would come off with of course horrific events unfolding having to go through withdrawal only to perhaps go through it three months later. But it was my way of trying to control the upcoming addiction I guess. But, still trying to focus on the dependency and so things are so opiate use was increasing to a point where I recognized that I just don't want to go any further, I don't want to go down this road anymore particularly when I start hearing about the successes people are having internationally with cannabis and I don't think from my research and what I've been reading, has it been given fair due regarding the sourcing of the drugs and the way the government controls access to it and the drugs and the research et cetera et cetera because independent stuff seems to be so different from governmental research anyways. So, I finally got to a point where I was feeling down and I know that a lot of my pain I actually had a new, a new pain occurred and it turned out that it was although it was in my back it was migrating around my side. So, now I was dealing with joint pain but neuropathic pain and we all know or I guess I knew that that opiates have virtually no effect on neuropathic pain. So, having that discussion with the pharmacists and knowing that opiates were almost like the first line of defense actually we tried another one we went on to I thing called Gabapentin, which wasn't designed for neuropathic pain but does have some properties for neuropathic pain did not work for me. So back on the opiates, time came again to have another discussion and I broached the subject with my pharmacist and he had mentioned that there is a drug he says matter of fact there are six therapies six or seven therapies that are common and we're just starting to explore them. So, my question to him at that time was you know are you confident that at some point we're going to find something that works and he was absolutely no he was he was really good and we're going to find something. And I can't remember if I mentioned a drug to him or if he'd mentioned to me what the word Nabilone popped up. And I think I might have been him it might have I think I think I started discussions with him about cannabis and its properties and I think he mentioned Nabilone and what it could do as well. So, we went. So, we got permission through my physician to switch over. So, I started with two half milligram tablets once in the morning one in the afternoon tablet. Sorry, half milligram in the morning half milligram in the evening so Nabilone is a synthetic THC as part of the plant.  Within three days I noticed a difference and within a month the pain that was on that was coming on the side had had all but complete disappeared to the point were later on in the summer, I ran out and I wasn't in a rush to go back to get it because I thought that maybe it was a one off and that pain was a temporary thing. But by the three days by the weekend being over the pain was back and I needed the drug again. And once again it subsided and things are going well. What's interesting is that the half milligram; Nabilone was specifically from my understanding Nabilone was specifically designed for nausea after chemotherapy so a very specific drug but it had these neuropathic pain medications. Manitoba Health covers that drug in that dosage. However, I went back now to refill last month and the pharmacy is out of half milligram Nabilone or I'm sorry. Yeah that's right, half a milligram of Nabilone, and a matter of fact that the pharmacist explained that it was a national shortage and we talked about different theories, conspiracy otherwise, bottom line being that I could not get hold of the half milligram. I could however get the quarter milligram so I opted to do that at 200 dollars a month. Two pills in the morning. Two at night half milligram each. However mental health does not cover the quarter milligram Nabilone unless you're taking it for what it was initially prescribed for which is the nausea after chemotherapy. So, kind of bizarre same drug just a different dosage one is covered and one was not, so totally obscure. Random thinking in my opinion and absurd. So that's where we're at. And now with the legalization coming next year I'm now explore exploring obviously other alternatives to that. Two hundred dollars a month particularly if as a national shortage the half milligram doesn't come back on the market and or if Manitoba Health doesn't change its position.

Kirk:  So, you're using a synthetic cannabis product. Have you. Have you looked at becoming a medicinal cannabis user or have you looked at looking at actual using cannabis.

Keijo:  Absolutely. I mean it makes no sense to spend that kind of money whenever there is going be legal for me to be able to do it another way. I had no desire to smoke anything but if I can if I could grow it or access it in its whole form either as an edible or as a pill or capsule form I'm game.

Kirk:  It's my understanding now Keijo that you can actually get a prescription from a doctor today as a cannabis user and as a cannabis grower you can actually get a license to grow your own today you don't have to wait for July 1st. Did you know that.

Keijo:  I didn't know that but I understand that because of what's happening with things going on. It's rather I think I haven't explored it a lot, its tightly regulated right now and I know I don't know if I need to get into that big. I mean like I knew so little of it.

Kirk:  But you're planning on it. You said if it gets legal you would like to grow your own.

Keijo:  Possibly I need to find alternative, the bottom line you know going into retirement, I can't afford the that's just one of the drugs I'm on due to my plane crash and other medical issues so there's a propensity for there to be a huge chunk going to unnecessarily pharmaceuticals.

Kirk:  OK. Have you seen. Have you found that there's any side effects of taking Nabilone?

Keijo:  I didn't and I think it's there are side effects that go with it. Like any other drug. And you'd think the first one was the high. But it was explained to me that I wouldn't have a head high would be a body high. But I guess because the dose them on I felt nothing no high whatsoever. No Mood change whatsoever. No side effects whatsoever just the absence of the pain gone.

Kirk:  So, you're an advocate of Nabilone. Now you are an advocate of cannabis. Absolutely. As a medicinal purpose or what do you think about cannabis from a nonmedical non-medicinal use.

Keijo:  To each their own. I mean when you look at the benefits of a drug that can be both medicinal and recreational. I mean what else in nature does that and everything in moderation. And I mean the government has already, I mean it's not even legalized but they're already projecting their revenues and how they're going to tax it. Price else also monetizing it's got nothing to do with the benefit of all of us it's about how do we monetize and control something.

Kirk:  Anything you like to add.

Keijo:  One thing I wanted to mention was my use since starting the Nabilone, what has happened to the use of the opiates. Well within that month of the pain disappearing my use of opiates has dropped to a third. So, I'm down to taking a third as much which is completely controllable.

Kirk:  You are balancing the pain that you have.

Keijo:  The neuropathic pain.

Kirk:  The neuropathic pain with opiates and Nabilone for the neuropathic pain and the opiates for the muscle skeletal pain.

Keijo:  Correct. OK. And I was able to reduce it sit down to a third. So we're talking going from hundreds of milligrams a day in slow release form mind you down to a third of that.

Kirk:  Have you found a difference in your performance level like you or you when you were on the higher opiates were you.

Keijo:  My short-term memory was toast. I'd be very mindful of when I took my meds and where I was. Obviously, drowsiness huge with opiates I'd be very mindful driving is a big part of my life. So, I had to be very mindful of when I took things and stuff. I've never had an issue because I was in control of that. Right. But I guess those who were the big things short term memory just the whole cognition and even my metacognition was definitely impaired.

Kirk:  With the opiate.

Keijo:  With the opiates at those high dosage. Now that I'm back down to a new normal I guess things are going much better in my memory. I think our memory will always be impaired if it was ever good to start with but it's not what I would like it to be and you know what what's plane crash, what's old age, what's opiates I don't know. It is what it is. But my cognition I feel is as sound and that life is life is better. I'm sleeping better at nights. It's always a good sign as well and indicative to me how the feeling is how I'm sleeping and things are going well. Just looking for alternatives to saving money in the end.

Kirk:  Ultimately it comes down to finances for retirement. OK so Keijo let's talk a little bit more about this conspiracy theory you have about Nabilone.  You touched on it in the middle of the conversation there, I didn't want to interrupt you but I'm going interrupt you now. What conspiracy theory have you come up with in your research.

Keijo:  What's up hear going out on the wire is that a possibility, because July 1 Cannabis becomes legal, pharmaceutical companies don't want to be holding lots of stock and lots of supply they likely not be able to sell. And certainly not at the rates that they're charging for them now. So as things run out or slow, I'm suspecting conspiracy theorists, not that I am one, are suggesting that it's a concerted effort to just dwindle stocks and not about making things available for Canadians.

Kirk:  So, you'd think you'd think the conspiracy theorists are all about pharmaceutical companies just trying to make money and not be patient centric. They're more monetary centric.

Keijo:  That's a big philosophical question. I see it both ways. I mean I know lots R and D, lots of money goes into research and development of drugs. I also know that there are no nobody in the drug industry is on in a soup line or living in a halfway house. So, there is definitely money in everything else. But I have to I'm alive because of chemistry. So, there is definitely an upside to it. But I think at some point the investors start looking more attractive and the patience and loyalties shift money becomes the dominant creature.

Kirk:  Again, we are going to play Marc Clement, this is “Way on Down the Highway” and Swiftie is playing lead guitar in that one. So yeah let's listen to Marc and we'll come back Marc.

Kirk:  So, that was Marc Clement, welcome to the Reefer Medness we are talking about patience.

Trevor:  So you were the one who actually interviewed these patients. I like the Kevin interview. He's a very interesting guy. So over three Kevin is the one who's actually smoking the plant and I believe he's using it for pain and I think it be fair to say he sort of more of the cannabis culture. What did what did you think of your interview with him.

Kirk:  You know I enjoyed talking to Kevin. It was very early in our research. He's one of our first interviews. He was really nervous and as I was also I was new to this game not that I'm an expert now.

Trevor:  You sound fantastic.

Kirk:  Look at us go man, look at us go. But Kevin came into the studio.  We had a really great conversation that was completely off air and then we started talking and realized that Rene was recording it. So we've taken bits,.

Trevor:  Rene does that to us on purpose.

Kirk:  I know he's going to he's going to get his later. But Kevin came in and what I liked about talking to Kevin was that he is of the culture he is that cannabis culture guy who has been self-medicating with cannabis for a long time and he talks about it in the interview how he just got tired of doing this and he decided to go and get his green card because he felt he felt like he was you know self-medicating he was underground that whole paranoia the whole stigma of pot.

Trevor:  The stigma that comes up quite a bit with several of our people from the head shop owner Allie to Kevin that they really bothered by the stigma of something they consider medicine.

Kirk:  Yes. And Kevin goes on and the interview and often refers to this as his medicine. So yeah there's that segments of the conversation I have with these are the most interesting parts and at somepoint at our website www.reefermed.ca we're eventually going to put the transcripts up so you'll get the whole interview because it is an interesting interview. And of course you can also hear us at all the social media that Instagram thing there.

Trevor:  That Instagram the Facebook.

Kirk:  Facebook we got the Facebook the Facebook page.

Trevor:  And the Twitter.

Kirk:  And the Twitter. So, you know what we're going to listen to Kevin now. Kevin we've invited you to join us because you're a medicinal user of cannabis. Yes. Can you define what that means what is medicinal user mean?

Kevin:  What does medicinal user mean, it's something that I use on day to day basis to, you know, for pain medication for keep a sane head a clear head.

Kirk:  How did you stumble into the cannabis as an alternative or as a isn't that funny, is Cannabis an alternative medicine or is it a choice.

Kevin:  It always has been a medicine. it always has been a medicine.

Kirk:  So how did you get into that as a choice was it early in your treatment or late in your treatment.

Kevin:  Well it's something that I've used for years or already and because of the stigma of everything I've always had to keep that behind closed doors.

Kirk:  Isn't that interesting so you self-medicate it up for a few years on the on the non-medicinal side right on the on the illegal market I guess. So, then you decided what I should maybe get this legit and I'll go talk to my doctor.

Kevin:  Exactly. Because now if this way it's legit and it's legal well this way I'm not going to get everybody looking at me like you know get the evil eye and I get you know.

Kirk:  yes. the old evil eye.

Kevin:  Oh yeah. Like I get to like I'm a bad guy or something like that.

Kirk:  So, you have this card and so because you live Dauphin, so you do mail order.

Kevin:  Yes.

Kirk:  OK. Do you ever go into I guess the common term is using dispensary? Do you ever go into a dispensary?

Kevin:  The ones that I deal with don't really want you to be coming in as you know just walking in off the street there type of thing. I guess maybe that's because of laws or regulations that are in there right now or maybe they just don't want the hassle of everybody coming in there right away and they just they're dealing more with mail in orders and stuff like that.

Kirk:  And now the doctor writes a prescription.

Kevin:  Yes.

Kirk:  Does he write the name of the strain of marijuana. He does that he just say…

Kevin:  No not necessarily he'll just more or less go by your symptoms. Like in my case like I have high stress or high anxiety, pain. So instead of taking T3s which I can't take because I got a stomach issue because T3s are too strong for me, I'll smoke a joint.  You know and it just helps me put you know relaxes me puts me in a frame of mind. A lot of times and you know it's better and benefits my body if I'm supposed to be resting and sleeping you know because a lot of us will fight that, you know, the sleep and that's when your body is healing itself the most is when you're at rest and when you're sleeping.

Kirk:  So, you have some pain Kevin, where's the pain? What type of pain do you have?

Kevin:  For me, I've got back issues. I've got a herniated disc. I've got fractures in my spine. So, it kind of makes my every day whatever I want to do in whatever job I'm doing whatever kind of work that I'm doing it kind of takes its toll on my body throughout the day. And like I said instead of taking other pills out there that are going to probably now start affecting my pancreas are going to start affecting my liver are going to start affecting my stomach in harmful ways, cannabis isn't going to do that. And cannabis will still allow me to function throughout my day because there's different strands again that will be either be you know and that'll is just like taking Tylenol 3s or some other and I'll tell you can operate any vehicle while under the influence of this still be some strains out there that are actually pretty strong that will just, you know.

Kirk:  I'm going to want to get to the strains are first I want to focus on the type of pain you have. So, I'm going to by what you described to me it sounds like you must have had a physical injury at some point in your life. So, at that point in time you were treated in the regular medical system and the doctor prescribed you a narcotic probably Tylenol three for the pain. Yeah. OK so how long did it take you to enter the program. How did you get into it?

Kevin:  I think the process really, I went and seen a doctor in Winnipeg and because of the fact that I was coming from out of town I'm like three hours three and a half hours away they fit me in there to do all my paperwork there right away so I didn't have to keep coming back and forward back and forth.

Kirk:  So you, hold on, so you went to a doctor in Winnipeg to do this. So a local doctor did and didn't prescribe this for you?

Kevin:  A local doctor here did not want to do anything as of yet because a lot of the laws were not changing yet. So, a lot of doctors here in town.  I don't know, maybe because you're a small town, just didn't want that stigma.

Kirk:  For whatever reason. OK. So you, you go into into a Winnipeg, you get a prescription and now you've got your card and you walk out a different man and now you can go get cannabis. How is the prescription written? Was it written one joint day was it written?

Kevin:  Well my doctor prescribed me as being allowed to have two to three grams a day. OK maybe it's only going to be one gram depending on how the pain is. If I'm doing something that day that's really put on my back and my body at issue. Well then if I smoke something there like that it would usually take the pain down would put my frame of mind in a better mood because when I get into the pain part when it comes to my back it's demoralizing. Sometimes it's because you can't do everything that you used to be able to do right.

Kirk:  Earlier you were talking about strains. Tell me about the strains they are all cannabis the same?

Kevin:  No because there are some strains that I'll stay away from during say throughout the course of my day, because it will make me too sleepy and too sluggish. And that will affect me in my everyday whatever I'm doing whether I'm painting whether I'm building something or just interacting or talking with people if I got to be out there all day. Maybe I've got to do a lot of footwork a lot a lot of walking and moving around that way and that's going to start putting strains on my back. So, there are strains out there that'll it just brings you down way too much and those are the times you should be using that strain when you're sitting at home.

Kirk:  How do you learn that? Did your doctor sit you down and talk to you about this?

Kevin:  Actually, you can go on some of the websites and I'll tell you specifically because again people who haven't used it aren't going to know anything about it. And again, just like any other doctor will tell you about T3s and any other pill they'll explain to you that this is like this and this one is good for this and you should maybe use this and don't use this.

Kirk:  The doctor the doctor gives you prescription Doc sits down and says here is the web page I recommend you go to whatever company it is you go on and then they have their strains. So, what's some of the strains the other names of these things.

Kevin:  Yes some of them have some funny names you don't like but there's.

Kirk:  I've heard Sour Diesel, Girl Scout cookies Moby Dick.

Kevin:  Yeah you know like stuff like. And like. But those are just the names that somebody will give to like say they're just giving the name of. Well they're coming out with a name just like Smarties, you know as a brand of chocolate the right ever. But really the strand that you're looking for is either like Sativa or an Indica something like that. That's the strains. That's the terminology and stuff that you're looking for. OK. Whether it's something that's called Bubble Gum Kush or something like that or stinky eye or whatever, that's just something again probably that's used to try to play on people's minds and get their eyes you know to go to this one but you really have to look at is what that strain is going to be doing for your particular for your particular symptoms.

Kirk:  OK so let's go with, I like that name Bubblegum Kush that just brings its connotations. So, you're looking good looking on the web page and you've got you've got the bubble gum Kush. So, there's a picture of it.

Kevin:  Yup some of them have yeah they'll have like a picture of it and show you what you're going to be ordering and what it looks like.

Kirk:  OK. And then and then what it does for you like it's sativa species, it's percentage of THC.

Kevin:  Yes, or CBD's.

Kirk:  OK so tell me about that. So, the doctor gives you a prescription for cannabis. It doesn't say it doesn't say Bubblegum Kush.

Kevin:  No.

Kirk:  Right. So this is cannabis. Yes. So then you go online and choose your own medicine

Kevin:  Yes. Exactly. Just like walking into a pharmacy there right now and going you know what instead of taking Anacin I'd like to take Tylenols instead of taken Tylenols I'd like to take ibuprofen right. Same thing if you were if you were told to go and get this while you don't necessarily have to get that you want to find what's going to work for you.

Kirk:  But if a doctor gives you a prescription for Tylenol, it will say Tylenol 500 milligrams four times a day every six hours or whatever the doctor says right.

Kevin:  So, in this case the doctor will give you that prescription for cannabis. Right. But he's not going to go out there and tell you should be smoking Bubblegum Kush there for you know for that.

Kirk:   Until your eyes go back to your head.

Kevin:  Exactly, it will be again up to you and what's going to suit and fit your symptoms.

Kirk:  So you have a lot of control.

Kevin:  You got all the control, and that is the way it should be.

Kirk:  You go online you have your you have your Bubblegum Kush and you say to yourself OK well I mean is that actually is that actually a name of. OK. So, in your in your memory banks what is bubblegum Kush do for you. Is it high THC low CBD. Is it high. What is it. Why would you why would you prescribe yourself that?

Kevin:  Probably because of what it will do again for your symptoms. Usually would have a Kush strain like that. No I'm not I'm not too sure again if it's if it's Sativa or if it's an Indica. But with that strain I usually find it's sometimes too strong will make me too sleepy too groggy. OK so I'll stay away from that during the day.

Kirk:  OK. So that is something you might want to go to sleep.

Kevin:  Exactly. OK. You've got restless leg syndrome or something like that and you want to go to bed because your legs are keeping you up all night you smoke a joint before you go to bed of that particular strain or maybe another strain that's related to those symptoms, that'll help you sleep if you want to function during the day or smoke something else that's maybe not as not as heavy not as potent or something like that but still keep you in that frame of mind but still work on your pain and or whatever else you're going to maybe you have anxiety issues. So that'll help to relax you and help you get through those issues during your day.

Kirk:  So, what you're essentially telling me and your audience you guys is that cannabis offers you a way of living your day with pain. You can you can live it. You can live it to function or you can live it to sleep. So, this one little prescription offers you a huge choice.

Kevin:  You are a quality of life.

Kirk:  That's cool. So, OK here's another question now you've used the word smoking so you smoke your cannabis?

Kevin:  Yeah or see that's what I used to until I started educating myself because you know you were just always just smoke and smoking and smoking. But as you start educating yourself you start learning that you're getting the main you get in them you're getting more of an effect from the medicine when you ingested it because your body is supposed to your body has cannabinoid receptors in it and it needs that medicine to keep healing itself. So, the only way that you're getting you're getting the most effective part of the medicine when you ingested it, when you're eating it.  When you're smoking it you're maybe getting maybe about 15 percent of the medicine when you're ingesting it you're getting at least 65 to 70 percent of the medicine.

Kirk:  Now your prescription doesn't say smoke a joint. It says just cannabis 1 to 3 grams. So you can choose them how to take it to. That gives you more freedom you can choose a smoke it or eat it.

Kevin:  Exactly. And the other ways like where you're not necessarily smoking it but you're using the vapor of it there too. So there again there they say using the vapor part of it you're gaining maybe about 30 to 40 percent of the medicine. The main thing that you're supposed to do when you read upon it is you're supposed to be ingesting it.

Kirk:  OK. So OK so how do you do that you just eat a bud.

Kevin:  Yeah. Sometimes I'll eat just regular bud, just like that just like a salad exact that's exactly what I was going to say. Just like a salad. You could put it in to mix it into a drink like a smoothie.

Kirk:  So what about baking it.

Kevin:  Baking same thing.

Kirk:  It doesn't destroy it, it does not burn off the THC by baking it?

Kevin:  No, because again as long as you're ingesting it and whatever. And there's and yeah that's another way of taking.

Kirk:  Are you spending less money on your pain management now than you were before.

Kevin:  Yep.

Kirk:  So cannabis is cheaper.

Kevin:  It has been there now since I've got it more as a medicinal. Like I've got my card and it's legal there, that way because I don't have to go to the black-market street guy either.

Kirk:  Right. Cool.

Trevor:  So the next patient you talked to was Dawn.

Kirk:  Dawn.

Trevor:  She was a little different she doesn't smoke.

Kirk:  She she's not of the culture at all.

Trevor:  She is not Looking for that THC.

Kirk:  No.

Trevor:  I think she even made a comment of not wanting her kids to do it. So, what do you have to say about Dawn.

Kirk:  You know Dawn interview was again one of those situations just happened. Michelle was that a cookie exchange. My wife Michelle is that a cookie exchange. And one of the people exchanging cookies was Dawn. And of course of course Kirk is on a project. So what do you know. Not that women talk about their husbands but of course they came out. So what Kirk up to. Well Kirk's working on a podcast with Trevor, Oh really, what he's working on a cannabis podcast. So Dawn started sharing her experience.

Trevor:  Insert cannabis Cookie joke here.

Kirk:  Yeah yeah. So she started explaining to the girls at the cookie exchange about her experience with cannabis and said you know. Michelle said I'll get her talk to you. So I'll walk walking the streets of Dauphin and I walk past I walk past Dawn's office and I know the office.  I've done work in the office in one of my passed lives in Dauphin, and I walked in and said hey Dawn, how are you. And you know if be damned if it didn't look like she was ready for me. I saw her reach into her desk and she put out some literature for me and I said hi Dawn understand that you were talking to Michelle. ya ya... And I said Can I talk to you about cannabis because, she says come back in 20 minutes. Right. OK. So I walked out of her office did some things uptown came back and I sit down in an office and talk about cannabis.

Trevor:  Technically an illegal substance at the moment. I guess she's medicinal.

Kirk:   She is medicinal, she's got a prescription. And so she goes and tells me her story of her happy pills and honest to god Trevor it was an amazing discussion with a woman, my age, I was going to say our age but you're a little younger but a woman our age who stumbled into cannabis as an alternative pain management scheme. And let's listen to her talk about her going on cannabis.

Kirk:  Hi Dawn how are you. Please introduce yourself.

Dawn:  I am Dawn and I'm a happy cannabis user.

Kirk:  A happy cannabis user. That's nice.  What, life is better with chemistry.

Dawn:  Life is better with chemistry.

Kirk:  Cannabis chemistry.

Dawn:  Absolutely.

Kirk:  OK so tell me about cannabis chemistry. Why are you on cannabis. Chronic pain management.

Dawn:  Pain management and yes chronic pain management I have knee issues spinal issues and they just don't seem to be alleviated with pharmaceuticals.

Kirk:  So you've gone through the Pharmaceutical path. Walk me through that path.

Dawn:  I have used a lot of steroids. I have used prescription, over-the-counter products and it just seems everything I use it's temporary and I don't like the way that it alters my system. Mostly just my digestive system.

Kirk:  OK. So. So the natural the traditional means so were you on. Were you on any morphine products.

Dawn:  No. No more frequent it's just it was basically over the counter ibuprofen maybe a little bit more potent prescription type of anti-inflammatory.

Kirk:  OK so how did you discover cannabis as an option.

Dawn:  I actually discovered it through a friend of my sons. Natasha Ryz.

Kirk:   She's a doctor. Dr. Ryz

Dawn:  She's a Doctor of nutrition and cannabis therapeutics. Well she presented a very thorough review of the science behind cannabis last Christmas.  That was very informative and she identified all of the chemical compounds it's able to be broken down how one doesn't need to smoke. One has options which really resonated with me because I don't want to smoke.

Kirk:  You don't smoke cannabis.

Dawn:  I use the oil.

Kirk:  You use oil.

Dawn:  So I use the oils and I use the CBD oils.

Kirk:  And how many grams per cap.

Dawn:  It's not a cap it's an oil it's a liquid.

Kirk:  oh, its the drops.

Dawn:  You can actually take those and you can actually take those drops and you can put them into little caps if you'd like.

Kirk:  So how many drops.

Dawn:  Three milligram, under the tongue and it tastes terrible.

Kirk:  And it's THC.

Dawn:  I do the CBD.

Kirk:  So it's CBD helps you.

Dawn:   the CBD helps me.

Kirk:  And you take it in the morning.

Dawn:  I take it in the morning and before I go to bed and I sleep very well.

Kirk:  So tell me about your pain.

Dawn:  I have been able to not 100 percent gone but I'll tell you I've been able to manage things a lot better.

Kirk:  And you don't have any stone affect.

Dawn:  No not at all.

Kirk:  you don't lay at your desk eating munchies.

Dawn:  Not at all, The CBD does not do that to you at all. I actually have more of a reaction to having a Sinutab.

Kirk:  Oh really.

Dawn:  I'll get a funny head with a Sinutab more than I do this.

Kirk:  OK so walk me through that. So you went to a presentation and now you discovered there OK so did you go to your MD. How did you get it.

Dawn:  The way I reviewed this I knew that there was a couple different places in Manitoba that opened up this opportunity to be able to get a prescription. So I identified the National Access Cannabis in Winnipeg as a place I would like to pursue. You know deal with. So, their process was to require required me to provide a prescription from my doctor or medical documentation outlining what my symptoms what my and my diagnosis was. With that I went to a number of the practitioners that I have dealt with in the past couple of years because my local GP was not we weren't going to be on the same track with things.

Kirk:  The local GP wasn't knowledgeable on Cannabis.

Dawn:  Correct. So therefore, I ask for my records of medical treatments. I accumulated quite a number of documents dating back to for many years 2007 up till just recently and those documents along with profile form in the registration form that National Access asked provided them a clear picture of what I was looking for. Once I forwarded that to them they reviewed it realized that I was available to be a candidate and then I made an appointment with them to see a doctor in Winnipeg. Now he's only practices one day a week so I made the trip at my designated appointment to the to the clinic where he had all my documentation and I said in an interview room with him for 15 minutes or so and he went through a whole list of questions a huge questionnaire about you know how addictions and tendencies mood patterns and that type of questioning to make sure the safety of this. And with my, with my medical record with my mental state being reviewed. He did prescribe a low dose of the prescription to start me out with and with my idea, thought in mind where I just wanted to go with the oils as an edible or I could use as a topical but basically as an edible. And from there I received my prescription from the physician I was done with him and then I talked to an assistant to an aide that she walked me through the variety different places in Canada where I can make my purchase for what I want.

Kirk:  So you shop online.

Dawn:  You shop online.

Kirk:  OK. And did you have to provide them your green card. You have a green card.

Dawn:  I have a green card.

Kirk:  And is it called the green card.

Dawn:  You know it's just a card from National Access Cannabis that it shows that you can. You know they reviewed you and you are a medicinal cannabis.

Kirk:  So all you registered then with Health Canada on a national registry. This is like a gun registry. What does this registry.

Dawn:  I believe. You know.  Good question exactly. But I when I registered through the National Access Cannabis they do the registration with Canada.

Kirk:  OK so you're registered with Health Canada.

Dawn:  Yes yes.

Kirk:  And the card does the card say Health Canada on it.  ...does it say...   she's going into her purse person actually showing me her green card here. I've never seen one. Is it plasticize? oh look at that, it looks like a driver's license.

Dawn:  And they actually let me smile.

Kirk:  So it's a Medical Cannabis card and so it Sterling back check. What is that, sterling back, is that a...  National Access Cannabis. So, this is. It almost looks like a driver's license.

Dawn:  Yep yep.

Kirk:  And it's green.

Kirk:  Yep. So I received that. And that's just... It's an N A C number National Access N A C. number.

Kirk:  So it's a national access cannabis number. OK.

Dawn:  So with that now. So you asked me about how this the next step goes to the once have this they done the review and the back check on me. So then I never have the, I physically never have the prescription in my hand.

Kirk:  What's a back check. What do you mean by that. Do they have to do a criminal record check.

Dawn:  No they didn't do that to me it was more the health.

Kirk:  Health check, So when you say back check?

Dawn:  it the health.

Kirk:   Its sounds like this doctor, it sounds like you actually went to this doctor reviewed account. This wasn't just backdoor medicine.

Dawn:  No no no. This is how I walked in when I walked in the door. I was not the only person there and a very kind of walking into like an Ikea kind of thing or Apple Store. And the majority of what I would because all the people that were there actually had matching t-shirts on. Anybody who didn't, were all in my same demographic.

Kirk:  Isn't that interesting eh.

Dawn:  female you know, in their early 50s. And it seemed like everybody had a big smile on their face and this is a.

Kirk:  it was a Happy place to be.

Dawn:  It was it was a good place to be.

Kirk:  Like most pharmacies everyone's dragging their...

Dawn:  You cannot purchase in-store.

Kirk:  OK.

Dawn:  You do not purchase anything in store there. And there was first thing I was surprised at.  But so now I have. Now I have been designated a prescription. We've chosen what the.

Kirk:   You have never seen the prescription.

Dawn:  I do not have physically have the prescription. That is handled through National Access Cannabis they take that prescription that this particular one is six months old and it has a lifespan of six months is transferred through them to my dispensary of choice OK which was the other one in Ontario. And so, then I never had that. So then once the dispensary receives all the proper documentation they contact me to tell me that I now have the right to purchase through them that certain quantity.

Kirk:  OK. And what you got 30 grams a month.

Dawn:  You're given you know the grams. You know I think it's 90 grams. OK. If for consumption not consumption per month but it's over overall like you only have a maximum you can ever have in your possession.

Kirk:  So, these guys register you and then and then you've got another card what is this card.

Dawn:  And this other card is through it this is actually my prescription but I can't transfer it out. It just identifies me. So, when I am if I have this on me and if I have any.

Kirk:  oh, look at that your maximum position is that you're allowed to carry 90 grams.

Dawn:  At any one given time.

Kirk:  From Candra so you have a green card that registers you with whoever.  And then you have this that allows you. So it's like a gun rights. When I carry my gun, I have to have my gun registry card when you carry; my rifle. And when you carry your cannabis your oils. You have this.

Dawn:  Yes. And I don't carry it on me, I just keep it at home. Yeah well it's very clean very sharp you deliver to the post. I have to sign for it. It's a very nice container.

Kirk:  its like yours ammunition.

Dawn:  The Oil are kept in a very you know.

Kirk:  Brown paper bag and comes a.

Dawn:  It's actually in a container plastic container that's child proofed and.

Kirk:  And you're using purely for medicine your using oils. You're not smoking and you're not experimenting you're just following a doctor's prescription.

Dawn:  No not at all. I think one thing I'll and then you know what kind of side effects possibly. If think I felt a little tired the first couple of days.

Kirk:  No munchies.

Dawn:  Never had the munchies I don't feel like I'm game anyway. So I know that's what a lot of people are concerned about.

Kirk:  Are you part of a study has anybody this is a doctor call you to how is nobody following you nobody following. Is that interesting because one of the biggest things are oh yes one of the biggest things all the experts that were talking to everyone saying we need to study it more.

Dawn:  No body offers to do it.

Kirk:  Nobody's offering to study your pain that you this is working for you. Thank you for this. Any other final words you'd like to say or anything.

Dawn:  People should respect it.  It's this is what we're getting older and this is going to be our solution in the future. I'm look I'm actually looking forward to growing old. OK.

Kirk:  Because you have a happy pill.

Dawn:  I've been told by very close people in my family, boy I wish you have been using this for years. You're more relaxed actually more relax; more focused and feeling better.  Wellness.

Kirk:  Its wellness… And the pain is something that you live with. So, you still have the pain, or is the pain gone.

Dawn:  Pain is not 100 percent gone. I do you know I do take every day.

Kirk:  But it's minimal.

Dawn:  It's bearable it's manageable. Definitely.

Kirk:  A question for you. What do you think is going to happen July 2^nd.

Dawn:  Think you're going to get some crazy people.  Then I think it's going to eventually the excitement is going to wear off and then the real people who know what's going on are going to get the benefit. People are going to feel.

Kirk:  But you as you as a patient.

Dawn:  Myself as a patient nothing is going to change for me.

Kirk:  While but I guess what I'm in July first will ya have to get a green card. July 2^nd will you need a green card.

Dawn:  Probably not.

Kirk:  Because it's legal right.

Dawn:  Because it's legal.

Kirk:  For you cannabis is purely a medicine right?

Dawn:  Purely in medicine. I do not I do not I was never interested in trying to find anything other than relief from my pain.

Dawn:  So you don't sit around a circle with people rolling a joint.

Dawn:  and I do not allowed my kids to do this too.

Kirk:  And you don't share your oil. This is medicine.

Kirk:   We're going to we're going to play it we're going to play ourselves out another Marc Clement song at the end here. So this is the song I'd like to play as Children and Trees as another song I like about his... anyway was going to play ourselves out on that.

Trevor:  All right. Here's Marc Clement.  We're leaving for another day.

Kirk:  Episode 2 has done.

Trevor:  Reefer Medness come back.