Reefer Medness - S3E10-3 - Saskatoon Hempfest 2019 – Potpourri
Rene: So a nurse and a pharmacist go to a cannabis expo. You've heard Trevor and Kirk interviewed Jacqui Childs at Hempfest Cannabis Expo, Saskatoon, and you've heard Sue Letwin being interviewed by the same. Well, today we're going to walk through the expo with Trevor and Kirk as they explore the Expo and find out interesting things from interesting people.
Sarah: My name is Sarah Lehman. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and based out of Vancouver, British Columbia. But I practice really anywhere that I needed.
Kirk: So, you practice across Canada?
Sarah: Yeah, I do. I mean, the furthest I've actually gone out east has been to Saskatoon, but I'm willing to go wherever I'm required in order to help people.
Kirk: OK, in your profession as a lawyer, do you need to be licensed in each jurisdiction or as a lawyer you are automatically licensed?
Sarah: That's a great question. So as a lawyer, you can practice in any other jurisdiction except for Quebec, so long as it compromises less than 50 percent of your practice. But you can't advertise in a different province unless you're called there. So I'm called in both British Columbia and Alberta so I can advertise in both of those two provinces. But I can practice really anywhere except Quebec.
Kirk: OK, so if it's a Canadian criminal case, then you can practice anywhere.
Sarah: That's right. And the Canadian criminal law is federal law anyways. So, although it's applied differently in each jurisdiction, it is the same piece of legislation that governs everything.
Kirk: OK, and so your specialty is cannabis?
Sarah: Well, my specialty I'm actually coming out of articling is and still continues to be impaired driving. So, it kind of naturally started to develop into a specialization in cannabis over the last few years with all of this buzz about cannabis legalization, all the changes to our impaired driving laws with respect to cannabis, and then, of course, all the other changes in the criminal code.
Kirk: OK, you said yesterday you have yet to actually present the case in Canada, yet on impaired driving with drugs.
Sarah: Well, I am aware of cases in Canada with the cannabis impaired driving. Actually, a colleague of mine out East named Jack Lloyd, he has a case going on right now that had to do with cannabis and driving, although I'm not certain that it was a criminal code offense, I think it might have been under provincial legislation. But that being said, I haven't myself had any cases yet where a person has been charged criminally with respect to cannabis, impair driving, and I haven't had that at any point in my career. It's been almost ten years now and I've just never, ever seen it.
Kirk: So, did we need the bill? What was it C-46, did we need that bill?
Sarah: Yeah. Bill C-46. Absolutely not. I don't think my opinion is that it's completely unnecessary legislation and that it does a lot more harm than good.
Kirk: So what's the one thing Canadians should know about, about cannabis laws and driving?
Sarah: Well, what they need to know is that these laws are extremely precarious. So if you're a person who uses cannabis and operates a motor vehicle, even if you're not operating a motor vehicle impaired by cannabis, you still could be theoretically criminally charged just for having THC in your body at the time of driving, not because you're affected by it, but because you actually have it in your body so stored up in your fat cells and then in your bloodstream. So, it is quite scary, actually, to think about it that way. And there's all kinds of problems, in my view, with how these laws were enacted.
Kirk: You said that everyone would fail the field sobriety test.
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I don't have a lot of faith in the field sobriety tests, mainly because they are subjective tests and they're conducted by one police officer on the roadside. And it's up to that officer to determine whether you passed or you failed. I mean, I went and got the training for it in Texas a number of years ago, did the entire course. And I can tell you that I failed a number of them, including the Walk and Turn Test, while completely dead, sober in the morning. You know, it's not easy. It looks like they might be easy tests, but they actually aren't. And the clues that the officer are looking for and a clue is an indication that you're impaired. OK, so that's what they're trying to collect are, clues that you're impaired. The clues are not obvious. Right. So, the instructions are often complex. The instructions are often long. They're difficult to remember, especially in a high stress situation. So, they are hard tests to do for anybody, let alone somebody who might be affected by, you know, drugs or alcohol or even fatigue or prescription drugs or allergies or a cold. You know, there's all kinds of ways people can be impaired.
Kirk: Do you think the average highway patrol, if we have that in Canada, I think that cannabis is a real problem. Or do you think it's a political, politician issue?
Sarah: I do think it's a political issue. I, of course, have the opportunity to talk to many police officers in the course of both my personal life and also my professional life. And I can tell you that they're not really seeing any increase at all in the rate of cannabis, impaired driving or even cannabis offenses in general, so I don't think that they are very concerned about it. I think that police officers in general recognize that cannabis wasn't invented on October 17th 2018. They know it was out there the whole time. And they've always had training for dealing with it and enforcing the laws because there were laws against drug impaired driving prior to the legalization of cannabis. So, I don't think it's the police are necessarily seeing more of it. I do think that it's politicians and lobbyists. So politicians responding to lobbyists and their demands around this issue in order to satisfy people that the legalization of cannabis isn't going to cause, you know, serious social disorder.
Kirk: So, the laws are built around stigma opposed to science.
Sarah: Completely. I would say that's 100 percent accurate.
Kirk: What do you think of Manitoba's law about no, grow. Quebec and Manitoba have no grow. My understanding is federal legislation trumps provincial regulations.
Sarah: Well, it can. I mean, of course, provinces have their own jurisdiction over particular issues, and that's something that they go to battle about all the time in court, whether this is properly falling under the ambit of provincial or federal government. At the end of the day, I think that somebody could mount a successful constitutional challenge to that ban. And I just think it seems completely unfair. I mean, what's the point of that? Why are you prohibiting your own grow? I mean.
Kirk: Very, very good question. If you're protecting children.
Sarah: Well, that's what everything is about, though, right? It's like any time I look at anything under the Cannabis Act or, you know, Bill 46, which is the impaired driving stuff, it's all about protecting children, protecting the public. And of course, no people want to make sure that the public and children are protected. I'm not arguing against that.
Kirk: How could you?
Sarah: But I do think that it's over-kill big time. And again, you know, cannabis wasn't invented on October 17th, 2018. It's been around forever.
Kirk: What would you like our listeners to know about cannabis and impaired driving or cannabis and the law?
Sarah: Well, I think they need to make themselves aware of the law around it, and one of the most important things actually that I've seen has nothing to do with cannabis at all when it comes to impaired driving. But it's one of the changes that Bill C-46 made, which is that now police officers can demand a random mandatory alcohol testing breath sample from you at the roadside. So, it's kind of ironic that since the cannabis laws kicked in, most people that I see getting in trouble are people who are refusing to do the alcohol test because they're not aware that it's now completely mandatory. Yeah. So that's one thing I think listeners need to be aware of is that if you're asked to do an alcohol roadside test, by an officer, just do it. Don't refuse it because you're going to end up in big trouble. But you have to just be aware of how to responsibly use cannabis, educate yourself on it. And, you know, if you do end up getting into some trouble that you shouldn't be in, definitely have the name and phone number of a good lawyer who can help you out of that trouble.
Kirk: So we have you tagged in the social media.
[00:08:04] Very much. Thank you.
David: So my name is David Deswiage, I am a commercial specialty broker. I have been working exclusively within the cannabis industry for insurance, general liability and property for about two years now. And I've come to Hempfest, Saskatoon to meet my clients. I can say safely that I insure about 40% of the people that are in this room right very now. You know, that's my accomplishment to date. But I work with people all across Saskatchewan, Alberta, and a lot of times they make these trips here. And this is an opportunity for me to put a face to that name or that email that I've received in past conversations.
Kirk: So, you are a specific cannabis home property insurance guy?
David: This is true, yes.
Kirk: Why do we need that?
David: So, cannabis is considered to be a specialty class of insurance, right now. There are only a handful of insurance companies across Canada that will actually provide the property, the general liability, the business interruption. You couldn't break down the coverage that you as either a business owner or a personal guy. This is the coverage in the insurance that you need to protect you in case of you don't shit happens.
Kirk: So as a recreational user of cannabis, do I need to have specialty insurance? If I'm if I'm smoking cannabis and I like my pillow on fire.
David: You do not. You know, because what happens in your home stays in your home. Considered to be the Vegas of the of your domestic domicile.
Kirk: So, when would a home need cannabis insurance.
David: So, if you weren't growing for personal use at home, insurance is going to come into play because as cannabis was only recently legalized, various insurance companies have different underwriting aspects of it. Some will write it, many will not. So, what I'm saying is that if you're growing four plants legally, the insurance company shouldn't have a problem with it, but some may. So, what you should do. I recommend, contact your current insurance broker, say hey I am growing four plants for personal use. And I want to advise my insurance company. The broker will go to that insurance company and the insurance company will make the decision, yes, we're OK with it or no, we are not OK with it. If they say you're not OK with it, then you need to seek out an alternative insurance company. But a person like myself, you know, give me a call and I'll walk you through the process. I'll make sure you get the coverage that you need. May or may not be a commercial liability product, but it will be something that that suits your needs. I do a lot of ACMPR, either personal grows or designated grows, some are obviously large scale, but they're not LP craft cannabis micro or LP size.
Kirk: So, if I am a medicinal grower and I have my ACMPR, you would insure me for my home.
David: Yes, what we would do is split the policy and I would insure the home as it is a general domicile and then we would insure the garage grow, if you want to call it that, for liability. We've covered buildings and we can cover some content. If you want to talk about cannabis stock, that's a totally different question. It's very difficult and expensive to get. But is it worth your while? Right.
Beth: Hi, my name's Beth Ryder. I'm the AQAP Quality Assurance Person at Boaz Pharmaceuticals, based out of Calgary.
Kirk: And what is Boaz Pharmaceuticals?
Beth: We're a very new licensed producer. We have a sales license just for a month. Got it in May. So, we're looking to break into their recreational market right now. And we also will be taking on my medical clients next week.
Kirk: Wow, so you are spanking new.
Beth: Brand new.
Kirk: OK, and you said 80 % of your crop goes to medicinal use.
Beth: Yeah, the idea would be, we don't want to run out of product for our registered, medicinal patients. We won't over subscribe. We want to make sure our patients have the medicine that they need at a constant supply. And then we use the extra 20 percent to maybe go to the recreational market.
Kirk: So, you would sell that then to other dispensaries? You're not planning on being a dispensary?
Beth: No, no, we can't be a dispensary. We have to sell through either the provincial distribution or Saskatchewan's direct to retailers.
Kirk: OK, so how do you grow? You are soil growers. Are you coconut growers?
Beth: Yeah, we're growing Coca. We grow inside under LED under a vertical growth system inside converted Sea-Can.
Kirk: Where do you get the Sea-Can from?
Beth: Our first Sea-Can were made in the States and the second lot were made in well that were converted in Edmonton, Alberta and the next ones will be done in Calgary.
Kirk: OK, we have a business in Winnipeg that does it. Delta9 convert them too.
Beth: Yes, they do, yeah. They have a similar system.
Kirk: Yeah. OK, so you're growing them inside Sea-Can.
Beth: Yeah. Inside a warehouse. Inside Sea-Can. They are double wide, so they are engineered so they can be welded together. So, we have 16-foot by 40-foot, 10-foot ceilings. So, we go on two levels.
Kirk: OK, and what, what is your cultivar. What is your, your signature cultivar.
Beth: Well right now we only have two products that will be available for us and we have a lot of new genetics coming up. But we're limited by approved grow space right now. We have two new pods that we're waiting for approval from Health Canada so we can increase our growth space. So right now, we have a higher THC product and then we also have a 1:1 2:1 CBD product.
Kirk: And what's the name of the.
Beth: I'm probably not the best person to answer that. Our Master Grower is here.
Kirk: Please introduce yourself.
Bill: Hi, I'm Bill, the Master Grower at Boaz Pharmaceuticals.
Kirk: And I was asking your colleague about your Strains. You have to Two Strains you're growing.
Bill: Right now. We are currently in production. We are in the process of our phase two expansion. We started with our first grow pods and originally when we go to cultivation licensed by Health Canada regulations, we needed to purchase our starting material from another LP that already existed. So the first two strains that we got were a very high CBD. Well, a ratio of 1:2 THC:CBD, which is actually called CBD Skunk-Haze and the other one is a high THC genetic that's quite, well known. It's called White Russian, which is a cross between White Widow and AK 47. That one is a high THC ones that we're running right now. Presently, aside from that, we also have another genetic set we are in the process of growing to get mother plants large enough to take clones to fill our production pods. So there's quite a few other ones coming along the way. And yeah, some nice, exciting genetics. And shortly we will also be introducing some new proprietary genetics that don't exist yet anywhere else.
Kirk: Now, you didn't say anything about Sativa versus Indica. So, do you do subscribe to a difference between the two.
Bill: There is a considerable difference between the two? Absolutely. And we will be touching some hybrids, some pure Indica and a limited amount of pure Sativa because of their growing structures. And the way that we have our pods design, we're very limited on how much space we can sacrifice to Sativa, but because they grow very tall, right. We have a limited amount of space being a vertical growth. But yeah, we're going to be touching everything.
Kirk: OK, so what do you think about Terpene? So, you tracking your Terpene?
Bill: We do. We do our Terpene profiling of every batch that we produce. It's not required by Health Canada to have a Terpene profile, but we do it because we want to know what's going on with our Terpenes as well. And yeah, we track that from one batch to another of the same genetic and see how our growing methods and how we tweak each grow, how that affected our Terpene levels, because it is a very important part of cannabis as well.
Kirk: So, when patients go to Boaz Abstract, they would have Terpenes on there as well as the other components.
Bill: Absolutely. And on our website, once you registered as a client, you can view the Terpene profiles, analytical certificate of analysis, potency levels of all our batches.
Kirk: Wonderful. Thank you.
Bill: You're very welcome, my pleasure.
Kirk: So please introduce yourself.
Brian: Brian Bain, Mother labs.
Kirk: And you are a horticulturalist.
Brian: I am a horticulturalist. Yes, I am.
Kirk: OK, what is a horticulturist?
Brian: We grow plants. I went to school to grow plants.
Kirk: You have a university degree in; postgraduate degrees.
Brian: Post, yes.
Kirk: So, questions about Sativa versus Indica.
Brian: It's a myth, It’s a myth.
Brian: Why? 99% of products that are allocated Sativa or Indica are mislabeled. We've been hybridizing the plan for thousands and thousands of years, and it's very, very rare to come across a true Sativa. So at the end of the day, it's just the culture has taken these genetics and we've really spun them around and we're dealing with a lot of hybrid now that show certain characteristics of Sativa or Indica.
Kirk: OK. But I mean, is a Sativa still taller and Indica still bushier.
Brian: No, no, They are short, fast growing Sativa. I have a 55-day Flowering Sativa, typically that shows Sativa traits. Very cerebral, very very fast growing, very small, skinny, bud have a lot of stretch, still fast flowering. And typically, that's an Indica trait. These traits that you see with these Indica/Sativa can often be blurred quite a bit.
Kirk: So as a recreational user of cannabis, what should I then consider when I'm buying cannabis.
Brian: Specific Terpene profiles you love. Stature. Honestly, at the end of the day, certain high. The affects, you're going to get come from a lot of different chemicals, 32000 chemicals with cannabis plant. The Terpene profiles, different variations of cannabinoids. There's a lot going on. So, you go off with the market generally says. Common traits. Go looking for something to wake you up in the morning. Great. If you're looking for something to put to bed at night, then you're looking for something specific for that. But I wouldn't characterize it as Indica or Sativa.
Kirk: OK, so be very aware of Terpene,.
Brian: Of your Terpenes and what you're really looking for. At the end of the day, there's a lot of science that isn't really going anywhere yet. There's a lot of data collection in terms of looking at the DNA of the plant. We can't really use that information yet. Genetic markings there. They only really tell if it's THC dominant or CBD dominant or telling sex. So, we're collecting a lot of markers that information out there that doesn't really tell us a lot yet. So, at the end of the day, it's it's how it affects you, how it affects people around you, your peers. But Terpenes for me is where I go. I really love the taste and smell of cannabis. And yeah.
Trevor: So, since we have a horticulturalist in front of us now in Manitoba, we recreationally can't grow up at home. But in Saskatchewan, other places we can. So if you had a first time, I'm going to buy some seeds and grow them at home. Do you any sort of tips for where people should start or get more information.
Brian: I get more information. There's lots of amazing forms out there. Myself personally, years and years ago, fifteen years ago, I started learning on an online forum. A lot of people in this industry started there. So, I'd say go online and try and find forums and meet newer growers. At the end of the day for seed stock. There's a lot of legal vendors right now that are out and about, currently here as well. So, I'd say go online, do your search. Pretty soon we'll have material available, clones and seeds. You in Manitoba obviously can't grow them. Here, you go to the retailer and buy them. But tips for me would be to stay away from hydro initially. If you're growing at home, I'd say go a nice peat based or coco.
Trevor: And sorry, Hydro for those who don't know means like growing it just in water. what does Hydro means.
Brian: Hydroponics, whether it's deep water culture, it's Aeroponics or it's many different methods of hydroponics. It's very, very difficult to manage. At first there's a lot of risks. So when you go a soil mix or peat mix or a Coco mix your watering less, there's less swing, less radiation in your medium. So, you get a little bit more consistency and it's a little easier to grow. So, for me, I would say the medium is a big, big thing for newer growers. Get a good solid light at the end of the day and a solid fertilizer mix. There's lots around, but start with a good, solid, easy to manage medium for me.
Trevor: That's fantastic. And you're a busy booth we don't want to keep you all day. Anything else?
Brian: Sure. Well, Mother Labs, we are going to be cannabis first production nursery license. We grow clones, teens, mother plants as well as to large scale tissue culture. All of our propagating material comes from TC, which is tissue culture meaning it's very vigorous, it's very clean, pest, pathogen free. We also supply a large pool of genetics. We're seeing about one hundred and fifty different genetics currently that we're offering this year and next. But basically, what we do is we supply LPs micro growers and medical growers with starting material. One of our best products is teen plants, which are ready to flower immediately. So, you get it at your door, you get into your farm and there's no vegetative time whatsoever. You can bring it to your room, Flower it. You get a much faster turn. So that's us.
Trevor: And the last thing that our listeners need to know is, I guess both the plant in particular, your expertise last minute sort of things that the average person out there just doesn't know about the plant and you wish they did.
Brian: It's very easy to grow. At the end of the day, a lot of people are worried about starting cannabis because it's slightly intimidating. It is a weed. It grows very, very easily. There're certain cultivars that are harder than others for sure. But when starting a good common cultivar, it's not as hard as hard as people make it out to be. You will always get smokable cannabis and it will tastes much better because it's yours. I really promote home growing and, you know, outdoor growing as well. But it's always a little bit sweeter when you grow yourself.
Rene: All right. That was part three of The Adventures of Trevor and Kirk at Hempfest Cannabis Expo, Saskatoon, 2019. Another good one's keeping with the tradition of playing local music at the end of every podcast we'll call Saskatoon Local there for Saskatchewan. And the artist will feature now is Jess Moskaluke Song will be "Night we won't forget." So she is from Langenburg, and she has performed in Dauphin, therefore localized. All right, thanks again for listening. Please like us on all the social media and follow us on the media and tell your friends thank you for listening.