Episode Transcript

Trevor: We're back.

Kirk: We’re back. So what did you think of 8000 kicks?

Trevor: He was fascinating. You know, honestly, I am not what you call a fashion forward guy. So you know, stories about shoes don't usually interest me that much. But no. But you know, how can you go wrong starting with, you know, I started a business with my grandmother.

Kirk: Yeah.

Trevor:  And you know, so we got it. Grandmothers. We got Portugal, we got most of Europe. Yeah. Now something and I don't know if you know and, but it just sort of jumped out at me. Do you know where the name comes from, 8000 kicks.

Kirk: You know. I assumed it was just. You know, but, he makes knapsacks and he makes belts and socks. And like. Anyways, we should introduce this. We in six years of doing this podcast and me harping about hemp as a textile. And me being a hemp kind of guy. I've got a wardrobe of hemp and I've been doing this for lots of decades. Finally found a guy that's building material like knapsacks, shoes and funky shoes and I got a pair of Chelsea boots. I met him on Kickstarter and I've been chatting back and forth with him with emails, but I wanted to get the boots on my feet before I had the interview, and as soon as I got these boots on my feet, it was like ohh my Lord, these are brilliant. I'm just so pleased. So yeah, Trevor, we found a guy who is building clothing out of hemp.

Trevor: And let's meet the founder and the I'm not kidding the junior partner, the guy and his grandma who are making shoes

Kirk: Yeah, yeah, let's just go right into the interview and we'll come out and talk about his business model. I'm very excited for him.

Bernardo: So my name is Bernardo. I'm the CEO of 8000 Kicks and we make the world's first waterproof hemp shoes and boots and backpacks.

Kirk: And backpacks. Yeah, and you're, stationed in Germany.

Bernardo: Now we stationed in Portugal and we also have, uh, an office in California.

Kirk: OK. And how long have you been a business?

Bernardo: And it's been a while. We started in 2019 with our first Kickstart project. Yeah, that was a while ago, four years ago.

Kirk: I found you about a year and a half ago and I was following you and I was waiting to find something and I got your Chelsea boots. I am so pleased with them.

Bernardo: It's really good to hear because I have a lot of Gray hair on those. It's just we spend like two years and a half developing them before launching. It's really hard to bend the fabric and make it fit the Chelsea boot. Even leather is complicated but fabric is even harder.

Kirk: Yeah, yeah, I'm very impressed with them. I'll talk about those with my partner, Trevor. But I guess I want to get more into your business. So I know you got some stuff to show me, but let's educate our listeners on hemp. What exactly? Why have you chosen hemp?

Bernardo: And to be honest. I didn't know hemp was hemp. I didn't know what it was all about. It was 2018. It was, I just moved out of London. I was working in London for a few years. I moved to Portugal to start my own company. I totally didn’t know what I was doing. I totally didn't know what I was chasing. But I knew that I wanted to create change and I want to drive progress, do something different, something that helps. But yeah, I was completely lost and one night I was having few drinks with the boys. And it was the stupidest idea ever. Someone came up with the idea of making a “hey Bernardo, you want to launch a business? Why don't you do a hemp shoe? Ha ha ha.”  I kind of didn't know difference between hemps and cats and it was just that, an idea. I didn't know hemp was super durable or sustainable, antibacterial or whatever. I just knew cannabis. I was doing other stuff back then. I was testing many ideas and one of them was that one. So I came to my grandmother which has over 50-years experience in textile and I came to her and I said. Hey Otilia, that's her name. I call her by her first name. What do you think about launching a cannabis shoe business. And, well, she was not very happy. Well, you have to understand. She was 76, 77 at the time. Well, when you come up with an idea of making a cannabis shoe, she was not very happy and obviously she was a little bit of a stressful days. A couple stressful days around the house. Until I decided to order some fabric from a French supplier. I ordered it. I had it. I showed it to my grandma and she was pretty impressed like I've seen a lot of things, this is interesting. And there was a first yes.

Kirk: Wow. So what did she do in textiles that she didn't understand Hemp at the time?

Bernardo: Well, she was always working with a cotton or linen or polyester. And she was, I mean, linen, you know, back in the day the clear definition of hemp was not very publicly known. It was all linen, right? So, she probably when she was working with hemp she probably thought it was linen. So, when she saw a new type of linen, this time called hemp because it comes from hemp. She was very impressed, but she totally didn't know that it's possible to make hemp out of hemp.

Kirk: That's very cool. So, so you figured Portugal. Why Portugal?

Bernardo: I started here because I'm from here and you know when someone starts a shoe business. One of the places to be is Portugal. China is also very important because a lot of the hemp in the world comes from there. It is the number one country in terms of hemp processing and this is why I spend a lot of time there. But Portugal is also a pretty important place in terms of shoe manufacturing that is why you get your boots made in Portugal.

Kirk: Yeah, yeah, they are well made boots, man. I was looking at them. I want to spend some time on the textiles. So. OK. You decide to make shoes and backpacks out of hemp and you move textile, talk to your grandmother. What was the next step?

Bernardo: The next step was. Well, we got some samples for fabric, we ordered a few more. And a few more and a few more. We start comparing them. Uh, this one is good. This one is not so good. This one seems strong. This one seems weak. Alright, let's move on with this one then I was one week just cold calling factories and say hey, can we visit you? We have this project we want to make a cannabis shoe and all factories are like, oh, sorry, we don't want to do this. You're too small, blah, blah, blah. You're like, yeah, but just hear us out. We have this idea, we we just see the sample we can sell in good quantities as long as we have. That was it. You started going there, just visiting factories, factories, factories. Yeah.

Kirk: So did you did you start with sneakers first or did you start with backpacks? 

Bernardo: The sneakers. The thing is, the original idea was with sneakers. We knew that we wanted to do sneakers, but the reason why we wanted to do sneakers is because we saw backpacks and wallets made from hemp.

Kirk: OK. So it's a different market.

Bernardo: Yeah, we thought, I mean, it's the same market. It's just a different product, right? So we were like if people can do wallets and backpacks, why can't we do shoes? Because I haven't seen any shoes made from this so.

Kirk: I'm a little older than you. I'm probably the age of your grandmother, but well, no. Well, not OK. Well, I'm not that old. But maybe closer to your parents. But I am. I've been buying hemp clothing, probably close to 40 years. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I grew up in the West Coast of Canada in Victoria. And we had, you know, in the 70s we had head shops and we had, you know, pipe shops and stuff and the marijuana paraphernalia. But there always be. There was a store on one of the main streets called Yates St. that was a hemp store. And I can remember going in there. God, it must have been the early 80s. I'm not sure if I'd moved away yet. I'd moved away in the early 80s, but I bought a shirt. I still have it. It's a beautiful shirt. What I like about it is that I wash it, I put it in the cupboard and it and it becomes almost like you could stand it up. You know, it's so it's so tough. And then when I wear it, it softens. Right. But I've had that shirt. I've had that shirt for longer than I've had children. And my kids are in their 30s now. So, but I've been buying hemp. I can. I can literally now with your product. Don, myself, fully and hemp, except my underwear. I can have hat, shirt, pants, shoes, socks. Belt fully.

Bernardo: We have some friends making underwear in California.

Kirk: I'll be looking for those and then I'll be the hemp guy.

Bernardo: Good. I have some. I have some stuff from hemp. It's called Wama underwear. It's a great project. And they have great quality. I personally use them.

Kirk: I like your socks. The socks are nice and soft. A lot of this stuff, I can say when I don't have your on the schedule here. But let's talk a little bit more about getting the hemp ready. We have hemp farms in our world. I 'm pretty much in the center of the continent, in North America, so we have hemp fields all around us and one of the things we know about producing hemp seed and hemp oil is you got to get the crop off the field quickly. With textiles, that's a little different.

Bernardo: That's correct. So in many cases, what people do, what farmers do is that they start by cutting the head. Where all the seeds and the oil, I mean the seeds right where you can use the seeds for seeds or just to do something to oil. That's the first. Yeah, but then in a lot of cases for hemp, you have to cut and leave it on the ground for a couple weeks so that it kind of dries up. And so that it can be processed. So they leave it. I'm missing the words.

Kirk: Rut?

Bernardo: Retting. Yeah, like retting on floor and then up after a couple weeks. I'm not sure how many. It also depends on the variety of the plant. Then they collect it and they put it on the decorticator. The decorticator is basically a machine. This is the thing. Also let me add, this is the most challenging part. It's one of the big problems with hemp is that it needs a lot of power to separate the bark from actually the fibers. So they have a machine that does like this really fast and separates all these outside air parts from the middle. The middle is then processed and used in like hempcretes and all sorts of materials and flooring and stuff like that. But what we use is the fiber and that fiber has to be as tiny, tiny, tiny as possible, because if you have some small pieces of wood or some thicker fabric, it's going to break the fabric. And this is a process that me and my grandmother have been like developing, mostly her not me, but I just do whatever she says. But the fact that the fiber is thinner, it makes it stronger it makes a big difference. It the thinner it is, the stronger it is. Then we can have stronger yarn. And when we weave it, it has also makes a stronger fabric. And this is a big difference. But the hemp variety of the plant matters, but one of the biggest things that matter is the quality of the decorticator that makes the fiber.

Kirk: OK, so your company. OK, I want to talk a little bit about the farming of it. So, your company went out, you found hemp farmers. So, do the hemp farmers then cut the heads off and use the seeds and oils for another business and then process the fibers for your company? So, is all the hemp plant being used?

Bernardo: To be honest, I don't know because I have long separated from. I don't longer go that down in the in the supply chain. It's really a lot of work. I cannot do that. Also I don't have the technical knowledge to do it. And also my grandmother doesn't. We normally source and we go to as we used to but we couldn't. We were not good at it. What we became good at is from the fiber up. Right. So the moment you the fiber is processed and it's ready to put into yarn and sometimes we didn't even go that we don't even go that low. We go more like yarn up.

Kirk: OK. So you're involved with actually making the fabric, the textile, you're ensuring that the, the fibers are appropriate for the textile that you want at the end?

Bernardo: Exactly

Kirk: OK, so who weaves it for you? Where do you get, so you buy it already woven or do you like how does that all work? 

Bernardo: So basically what we do is we buy the yarn or we sometimes don’t buy the yarn. We go to the Weaver and we tell her we tell them exactly what we want. So we want this thickness. This sometimes you have to mix it. The socks you have are mixed with organic cotton. So sometimes you have to mix it. So we always say we want this much this thickness, this elasticity this that, this, that and then we say it has to be died to this specifications, it must be OEKO-TEC which is a sustainability certification. It must be, it must be this durable and stuff. So we have this all specifications. The composition. Then we have to talk with them about the thickness of the yarns and then they put it all together. They help us, I mean we give them the freedom to pick whatever they want in terms of suppliers. We suggest them some, but they'll ultimately it's up to them to pick who they want to work with.

Kirk: So, these industries were already developed before you started your business. You found these industries and then went to them and said this is our specifications. Or did these industries pop up because of your business?

Bernardo: It's a mix of both, but we are still very small to be able to say that we popped them up, but we somehow did cause a lot of this new developments have been done because of us. The thing you have to understand is also hemp this was really hard to find. We could not supply hemp in the US, we could not supply hemp in Canada. We could not supply hemp in Europe. In Europe, well, we could in Ukraine, but it was very hard and the machinery sometimes is not good enough what we need. For instance, we make our insoles, for instance, are made in Spain. The hemp we use for the insoles. The hemp we use for the belts are made in Czech Republic, but we would not be able to make the belts with the hemp that we use in the belts in Spain or vice versa or we would not be able to make the hemp belts with the hemp we have in Ukraine. So, it's really hard to actually, I mean you're good at this, OK? Perfect. But it's that's the problem with hemp. I mean, with cotton, I don't have any problem. I go to the shop here or there and I say I want 2 meters of fabric white fabric to use to make a pair of boots. easy

Kirk:  OK. Is that is that because of laws? Is that is that sourcing because of laws or just because of the quality of the hemp?

Bernardo: For both, the thing is hemp, you have to understand, hemp was forbidden for so many years. Only now the industry is starting to appear; reappear.

Kirk: Good Word

Bernardo: And even though it's starting to reappear, it's not like it’s done.  Right, there is this factory in Portugal. They have to invest $15,000,000. They just got funded last year. Only now they're planting and then they're gonna buy the decorticator, and then they're gonna buy this and that. And only like in a few years, they will be able to start having output of hemp. But this is because we already talked with them. We told them we will buy from you if we hit the standards. And they say we will meet that stuff. We will meet those standards. I said perfect. Let's do it. But you see how it goes, right? It's like chicken egg problem. I am already creating the demand. But I'm not capable of sourcing an entire or supplying an entire factory out of hemp the whole year. Because we're still a startup, we have good quantities, but we are not like Patagonia or something like that.

Kirk: Sure. Well you, you just want to basically get their attention, I'm sure. Patagonia is a good business model. The reason why I'm asking is because we have, like I said, we have a hemp industry in, in our region here. But it's pretty much Oil and seeds. And there is one fellow that's dealing with the actual fibers, but he's making, you know, Kitty litter. He's making absorbents for oils and stuff, but I'm just wondering how difficult it would be to get a textiles industry going locally. I imagine it requires a big chunk of change up front.

Bernardo: Yeah, I mean. A good decorticator normally it's the biggest investment. It has to be really good. It can go up to 5 to $10,000,000.

Kirk: Yeah, yeah. Going back to your shoes now, you advertised them as waterproof and breathable. How is that? How do you make your boots waterproof and breathable?

Bernardo: Yeah. So we have two things. The first thing is we start by, when we make the yarn, the when we make the weaving. We weave it really hard so that the water doesn't go through. And then we apply coating on top. The coating protects the fabric, but also keeps gives this effect of water repellency. And then we have a waterproof membrane that allows water to go out. Sorry. Water vapor to go out but not humidity to go in. So basically this is what gives the effect of waterproofing and breathability. Now it's not like as breathable as a pair of Crocs, right? But you've tried them. You see how they still leave your feet to breathe, but not the water to get in.

Kirk: So on the membrane. But you're, I mean, reading your web page, you guys are, your business is very, has a very strong corporate social responsibility. So, I imagine it's all it's all vegan and good for the earth and that. So what is the membrane? Is it synthetic or is it more cloth, is it?

Bernardo: Yeah, we don't use animal products. That's the first thing. We're totally against it. Basically, what we use for the membrane is a synthetic component, and it's made of the same material as vegan leather. Basically the same type of vegan leather once again. So all our shoes are either natural. But like natural like, I mean plant based and then the small parts of it are we have to use synthetic to because we couldn't find natural products doing that.

Kirk: OK, the soles of the shoes. So I get the boots about a week before Christmas and I got them and I was about to go run an errand, so I put them on and put on some. Ice, you know, ice crackers. You put them on the bottom of your shoes and you can walk on ice around here. So I put those on for my first walk. I came home and I had to go and I took them off and I walked on ice again. Your soles. The soles seemed to grip very well. Like I walk, I walk the sidewalks of my town, which can be snowy, icy, clear, and I feel secure in them. So what's on the sole of those shoes?

Bernardo: It's, it's rubber. But what we did it is. Because the winter shoe we gave it a little bit more abrasion so that when it hits the floor it doesn't slip. It's basically, we soften the rubber so that it doesn't slip when you when you touch the floor. Does it make sense?

Kirk: Ya, wearing them, I'll explain this to the listeners, but essentially I put them on and they fit like a glove like I seriously believe my foot goes into those boots and they fit well. I got toe movement and I'm walking and they're warm. They're secure. I put on a great big. We have an industry here. People sell alpaca socks, so the thick socks. So I put on a pair of thick socks. They were a little tight. But yeah, they're a little tight but again I can't say enough about the shoes. I'll be raving about them as we introduce your episode, but more about your business. Yeah, no, I'm that's why I wanted to talk to you. I've been looking for a textile story for five years and I haven't been able to find a business. Well, I don't know if you're familiar with our website, but we've got 100 and 117 episodes are all about cannabis and hemp and everything, so I've been raving about textiles forever. Tell me a little bit more about your partnerships, your business, your business allows ambassadors. I'm wondering if our podcast can become an ambassador for your business.

Bernardo: No, absolutely. We basically we have, we actually give a discount to all our ambassadors so that they and their partners, their listeners can also have a discount. I can create a specific one for you so that everyone can enjoy a discount. I mean, right now we don't have boots. Sorry everyone we sold out of that one. It's been a bit complicated because we have to close them on the website. We had a lot of demand and we have another production coming out in 2 weeks.

Kirk: It's. Yeah, no worries. I mean, your web page is full of products and it's lovely, it's lovely stuff. So, I would be honored to, to have you on our web page and try to promote your business. I'm all about hemp and I really think hemp is, it's the past and it's the future. You know, there's no question. So, we're on the same page, you know, man, a lot of the stuff I have here that I had questions for you, I can sort of talk about. Oh, here's one. Tell me about 500 plants that were spread around Berlin. What did you do there?

Bernardo: That's a good question. Sometimes you have to break some plates, right? No one drives change by sitting at home and waiting for it to happen, right? So, me and the team me, Joao, Sarah, Patricia, we were like, we gotta do something. We and basically what we decided was we're gonna be in Berlin. Let's do something crazy. And the idea started with us. While spreading some green love around Berlin, but we contact a lot of farmers around, we finally got one around Berlin. He was living like two hours away. We rented some trucks and not trucks, like some vans and we drove all the way there. We incased like 500 plants, put them in the truck. We hang some bags on the plants explained. This is not for smoking. This is industrial hemp. It's used to make shoes and stuff. Textiles. So then we decorate all these plants with a lot of work and the night before we took off with 500 plants and we actually had to drive few times back and forth, but we drove, we drove to Berlin and then we just stopped drawing them away as fast as we could and was a little bit of an adrenaline rush. The police stopped us, but then it was just because we were not in a good parking. It was a lot of stressful moments.

Kirk: But you? But you got arrested and arrested for parking violations or littering. What did they arrest you on? What was the charge?

Bernardo: Yeah, basically they didn't arrest me on any charge. But they did arrest me because they wanted to see what I was doing, right? Imagine if someone is dropping 500 plants. It's like and you put it online. For some people it threw some red flags, right? So the police had to intervene. They the police said that they got notified by some neighbors. And then they showed up at my door just like they grabbed me, they brought me to the police station. They took some plants. They tested them and then I went to the judge. And you know, they could, they could charge me on so many things, they could charge me on littering. They could charge me on public indecency, I don’t know. They could charge me on anything or like, illegal marketing, not authorized campaigns, I don't know. But they were pretty cool.  I stayed there the whole I had to, well, stay there. The police eventually. They, you know, Germans are really stuck up, but they eventually they chilled a little bit. They tell me what was going on and I was just a little bit nervous and then I relaxed a little bit. Then I went to the judge and he said. I mean, I didn't understand what he said, but some people translated for me and they said, OK, the judge says it's not too bad. It's not as hard as they thought it would be, but it was important to check it. I cannot do this again. And I have to collect all the plants. And put them away. And I said sure, but by the time I went to the street, most people already collected the plants and.

Kirk: And took them home.

Bernardo:  andtook them home and I was like, alright, I was walking around the streets, everyone collected them and brought them home, so I was. I just took a bunch of them and just left.

Kirk: That's funny, man. You got a lot of mileage, a lot of advertising out of that, I bet.

Bernardo: As they say, all advertising is good advertising, but it was it was a bit scary but. Uh, it's all done and it's all, I'm good, no problems and

Kirk: That's great. Hey. Hey, how many people do you employ?

Bernardo: We are a small company and we are four people and a half. We have some person part time, but we also have, we outsource a lot. We have a designer working for us. We have a warehouse that we outsource in the US, they have all our products. That's why we normally ship fast to the US. Except for Kickstarter campaigns, those are a little bit more complicated. But basically, four people and 1/2 full time and the rest outsourced. Another like 10 people outsourced.

Kirk: And besides getting them online or Kickstarter, where do people buy your products from? 

Bernardo: Well, they can come to any stores available. We have a list of stores or website’s footer 8000kicks.com. They can go to the footer and they have a list of stores we have. Around 2030 stores around Europe and I believe like 8 or 9 around the US, but this year we're going to open more stores. In the US. 

Kirk: Very cool. Very cool, man. OK, what question didn't I ask about your business? What do you want our listeners to know about your business?

Bernardo: And the most important for me, for people to understand is that we are in the market of amplifying society, because we really believe in this fiber, the same as you. We think this has a lot of potential. And what we are doing is working really hard to develop hemp to the way it should be today, and we do that by reinvesting all the, I mean, all the money that we got from kickstarter was put into, not only making the boots, but pushing hemp to the next level. They're doing more tests. They're spending thousands of euros in the lab, perfecting the fibers, perfecting the yarn, going back to the to the factories and telling them that they should do this more thinner or harder. Or this more or that. Or So what people are doing by buying our products is not only getting a hemp shoe with supporting our developments and our efforts to make hemp a great fiber as it once was. And this is our goal, so after this, running shoes is our next step. It's a big milestone for us and this is our next step in making a pushing hemp to the next boundary, which is performance. Which is which is a big thing for us. And the moment everyone sees that hemp is the number one fiber in the world. Big brands will start changing and using hemp as well, and once they do we all have created a sustainable world and a world where sustainable fibers make sense because it's just better.

Kirk: Is one of your hopes that someone big finds you and buys you out, or you're going to always be a little bit of a little guy?

Bernardo: Well, we hope we grow, right. So we that's a dream of us to grow. Now getting bought. Yeah. Yeah, maybe yes, maybe. You know what is important. For us is to continue driving, pushing forward the vision that we have. Right. So it's important that if we get bought, the person that buys us understands what we're trying to do and not just not us and like, not just adding us to their catalog. Ohh, here is another shoe. The thing is getting bought by someone with big pockets is a way for us to potentially achieve our mission faster because in the end, it's not just about how much money you die with, it's about the legacy you drop and we really want to leave the legacy of having a planet where hemp is mainstream, ubiquitous as we like to say.

Trevor: So Kirk, you obviously loved this episode you went so far as you were a spokes model. Yeah. But yeah, this I can see why this one's right up your alley. You know, we're you know, you like the whole, I'm not saying I'm against it. But you like the whole sort of end to end life cycle of a product stuff and this is really somebody who you know is got, you know, doesn't do so much anymore. But at one point was going right to the farmers to say, you know, can you grow this to the processors you know, can you take this, what are we going to call it? Yarded fiber, fiber is the right word and turn it into a cloth. We can do something and then, you know, convince his grandma that you know the cloth, after the cloth is made. Hey, this is just, you know, kind of like linen to, you know. Then how do you waterproof it and how do you make soles on it? And then you know, so yes, definitely a whole life cycle and all about hemp.

Kirk: You know, I was thinking about what to talk to you about in regards to this show because this episode, because obviously you know hemp product, you know history of Hemp. These are things you've heard me say, and I'm sure the audience has heard me say over and over again. So I don't want to repeat, I want to talk about fashion and this guy's business model. I mean, his mission.

Trevor: Yeah, because he we as two older guys fashion that, that's our thing

Kirk: I like to be fashionable. No, no, I mean. I mean, I'm talking about right now in this day and age, the whole fast fashion thing, the whole throw away food, throw away clothing. I mean we, I guess you know. I guess I can afford to buy good clothing. I love the Patagonia model. I mean, we've got a business in town that's sponsor us, Prairie Supply Co. They have, they sponsored the Phil Giaman episode. So you know listeners, if you want to buy online a good clothing store, Prairie Supply Co in Dauphin Manitobar Canada is a good business model. He deals with Patagonia, and Patagonia's model is, you know, if you want repairs, you ship it back to them. They do the repairs for free. If you want to retire the clothing, they ask you to give it to them and they will deconstruct the clothing and make new clothing out of it. This guy's Bernardo's business model. Our mission is to bring back hemp by showing everyone hemp products are way superior to other products made of other fibers. This is a green answer we have been waiting for. He lives it like if you go to his web page. He explains he explains how his business matches a green model, a carbon footprint, they got making shoes, he says here, the average emission for a pair of running shoes is 14 kilograms of CO2. We've managed to reduce it to 4.1 kilogram. So his business model is about reducing carbon footprint. His business model is to produce clothing that will last. His business model is to have ambassadors and he gives you serious discounts. So much so that when you go on to reefermedness the podcast web page, click on a link you'll be able to get a discount from his clothing. I like this guy's model so much I took it to Dale at Prairie Supply co. and I said have a look at these boots man, you know and look at those are pretty fine boots, 100% waterproof. Really, 100% hemp and the rubber soles are vegan soles like the like. Everything about this product. It's fucking brilliant. So I'm going to say it. It's fucking brilliant. Everything that this 62 year old man lives for, this kid is doing. I support him and. Really fast fashion. I mean, Michelle and I are now going to thrift stores, right? I I'm trying not to buy new clothes anymore because it's. It's all fast fashion. It's all. Clothing is going to landfills, you know. So anyways, this guy's modeled Trevor. Seriously, man. Next Christmas, you should be buying hemp shoes for your kids from this guy.

Trevor: You know, honestly, I was towards the end of that. I was thinking about, his next model, the what? We'll call the more athletic shoe. Now here just get two things before I get on to a small rant in case. Someone missed it because we didn't talk about it. Kirk, what does hemp clothing have to do with the cannabis plant? Because we usually talk about cannabis stuff. Just the quick, the quick spiel on that one

Kirk: I'm. I'm assuming our audience knows this, I mean.

Trevor: But just in case. 

Kirk: Hemp, hemp, hemp is cannabis. It is. It is the fiber. The non the non medicinal, the non-intoxicating form, right. Sativa.

Trevor: If you've ever seen a hemp plant, the part that we talk about smoking oil, whatever is the little flower at the end of it. But it's got a huge long stalk that is all fiber has been used since forever for making rope and a whole bunch of other things. And then.

Kirk: Well, canvas canvas, canvas.

Trevor: When you tell this part of the story better. Basically, when cannabis became illegal, a lot of the hemp stuff went away too.

Kirk: Well, yeah. They assigned hemp to the cannabis as a narcotic thing. I mean, the word canvas comes from cannabis. When the old sailing ships, the sails were made from hemp plants, I mean, if you're into, if you're into Templar Knights and the old the Holy Grail, those guys used to own vast vast farms of cannabis farms growing hemp, it was the rope of the day. I mean, I mean, I think one of our first episodes, I did a rant about DuPont and Hearse and how they basically destroyed the hemp, the hemp industry. And when I lived in Alberta. And I was Captain Kirk of the Lac La Biche Volunteer Fire Department, and we did a tour of Alpac, the great big pulp mill in the center of Alberta. There, about an hour north Lac La Biche, an hour South of Athabasca. There's this huge monstrosity cutting down swaths of Poplar trees and to make paper and it's like. Just grow hemp, man. You know, back in the 90s anyways.

Trevor: It was a great episode. You can really hear his enthusiasm, but it's not just the enthusiastic with an idea. He's gone through some trials and tribulations. The product is really out there. It has really been shipped across the Atlantic to you and you know he's using hemp. He's doing it in Greenway. You know this? This was a fun episode. Thanks for bringing it to us. Yeah, alright. There was another good one. I'm Trevor Shewfelt I'm the Pharmacist.

Kirk: Ohh, and I'm Kirk Nyquist. I'm the registered nurse and we are Reefermedness - The podcast found at reefermed.ca and all of those platforms. We're on like 35 different podcast platforms, so find us

Trevor: and on a bunch of the Social medias?

Kirk: Yeah. Find us. Listen to us and tell a friend. Because social media is not pushing us because we're talking about marijuana. So, you know, tell your friend about us.

Trevor: Talk to talk to everybody later have. A good day.