Episode Transcript

Trevor: Kirk, we're back. 

Kirk: Hey Trevor: how's it going? 

Trevor: Good. So, I. I play a little bit of hockey in the winter. That's sort of what my main exercise is. But on Friday, I had a hockey game, a parents versus kids game against my son Eric. Which, you know, parents versus kids are always cute, But, you know, that was back when they were ten, you know, came up to your waist and you try not to run them over while you were, you know, playing a game against them. My kids, now 17, he's taller than me and he is far from the biggest kid on his team. You know, there's kids on his team who are six four. So, you know, the parents the important part is the parents won, but only because we had some ringer. But yeah, you don't have to be careful of, you know, 17-year old boys when you're playing hockey with them. You go out there as a parent and hope they don't run you over. And yeah, they're faster than you. They are better hockey players than you. Yeah, it was one of these, you know, interesting things. Reminded me a little bit of the last parent game I played, which was against my daughter's team many years ago when they were bantam age. So, you know, 15 ish year olds. And, you know, I would go out and play, you know, these little girls. No, no. The 15-year-old girls were this close to being faster than me. So, you know, it's always just kind of an interesting thing when you know, your kids, another sign, your kids have grown up and you've gotten old. But yeah, it was kind of, you know, a kind of wrapping up of Eric's season. You know, he's graduating from high school this year. So just another one of those transitions into I don't have little kids anymore and fairly soon I'm not going to have kids in the house at all anymore. 

Kirk: Yeah. Empty nest. When they come visit and they bring their own children, that's when the next stage happens. 

Trevor: Well, yeah, hopefully that's a few years away, but I guess you never really know on that one, do you? 

Kirk: You're not in control of that. I can remember one of my milestones was watching my child take my car out of the driveway at 16, and he was driving through the park to go watch a movie in Brandon and for those who don't understand, we have Riding Mountain National Park, which is Boreal Forest south of us, and it's a windy up and down undulating road. And like in the dead of winter, it can be a very unpredictable road with wild life and icy conditions. And, you know, 16 years old. I can drive a car, Dad. Yes, dear. Here's the keys. And he's gone for a two-hour drive down south to see a movie and coming back. So that was that was a sleepless, sleepless evening waiting for that car to come back. So, yes, I get it. Kids milestones in the lives of being a parent. 

Trevor: They are. So at that age, I really like this podcast thing we've got because one of the cool parts is sometimes just random, cool people just sort of reach out to you and go, Hey, you know what I really like? I like your podcast and especially the name and this random guy, Brian Rayner, sort of reached out on LinkedIn and we had a chat on LinkedIn about this, that and the other, and he had so much to say about, you know, cannabis in general and, and, and, and that. Well, do you want to just record this conversation? This is really interesting. I think people would be really like to hear it. And so to my surprise said, sure, I'd love to do that. I like telling my story. So that's kind of how we got Brian. Any questions about him ahead of time or should we sort of let Brian introduce himself? 

Kirk: Well, yeah, we can. You're telling a random story and it's interesting because this passion project does allow us to speak to interesting people when we come out of this and and essentially remind me to tell you the story of walking into the college and speaking to nursing students. Sure. I had I had that opportunity last week. But in talking about this story, I think this is interesting because I usually bring the human interest stories. I usually bring the My Cannabis Stories in. And this is a My Cannabis Story of an interesting gentleman with an interesting story who discovered cannabis goes, oh, it's medicine. It's not just something that you do to get hooped in and loopy. It's actually medicine. So this is what I like this story, I think, yeah, I'd jump right into it and let's let's hear him tell his story. 

Trevor: All right. Let's listen to Brian. 

Brian Rayner: Hello. And thank you for that. Thank you for that introduction. Trevor. My name is Brian Rayner. I am a former U.S. Marine combat veteran. I know a lot of folks say, you know, once a marine, always marine, don't say former are past Marine. I still say it anyways. I don't don the uniform anymore, and the battles that I fight are not on foreign land and not not in a physical sense either, thank goodness. So I'm a technology entrepreneur and spent close to three decades in corporate America and various roles from doing cloud consulting for the oil and gas industry. Digital marketing solutions for all kinds of different markets. Automotive. Did quite a good number of years there. And then in the Health and Club, Health and Fitness arena back in the nineties and information technology and I've serviced all different types of businesses and as I alluded to prior to that, I was I was in the United States Marine Corps. I was one of those kids that, if you didn't know me as a teenager, you would have been shocked like everybody else was that I actually joined the Marines, but I knew I had to get a little bit of guidance in my life. I was I was a college student at the time. I was studying. Depending upon the semester, I studied art, I studied psychology. And before I finally threw in the towel, a typical tech entrepreneur dropped out of college. 

Trevor: I think you have to do that to be a tech entrepreneur, don't you? 

Brian Rayner: It got to. I think it's like, you know, that that's that's definitely one of the prerequisites, so. So yeah, so I think engineering was well, I think engineering was the thing that kind of sent me over the edge, like, jeez, I majored in engineering one semester. I'm like, That's it. I'm joined the Marines. It's got to be easier than engineering, especially a right brained out of the box thinker like I tend to be. So. So yeah, I was I was in college, joined the Marine Corps. And then I just want to talk about the PTSD and kind of how I got to that level and then what cannabis to kind of completely remedy in such a miraculous way. I can't say enough great things about it. So join the Marine Corps. My MOS was in 0151, so I was a special screener, which meant that I tested, I think, fairly well on their IQ type of tests that they have the ASVAB.  And my MOS was was imagery, interpretation, intelligence. I'm colorblind. And so the day before I graduated boot camp, they're like, well, you know, you can't have this MOS. So I know it sounds like a Fun MOS. I'm qualified. And they're like, Well, has got to start study bombed, damage assessment photographs. I'm like, I'm good. I can totally do that. They're like, What you're says you're colorblind. You know, they are in color. They're not black and white. So my MOS ended up being an 0151, which is an administrative function. So I thought it was right after the first Gulf War. I wanted to be a marine so bad. So I was like, okay, excellent. I will definitely do the 0151 administrative thing. And they said, Hey, you know what? We'll put you in a headquarters, Third Marine Aircraft wing. You're going to be in California. I've always been really big into music. He asked me where I wanted to be stationed and gave me three different choices, and Hawaii was one of them. But I picked California because the music scene there, and that's just a silly, silly reason, but I was so into the music. A lot of the music that I was into as originating out of California at that time, Korn and Tool and Rage Against the Machine. And then you had the Seattle grunge thing with Nirvana and Soundgarden, Alice in Chains. I was all about that, so. I joined the Marine Corps. I get stationed out there. I went to combat training, all this stuff, and then being there for a few months, we got the announcement that we're headed to Somalia. And I was like, You know that geography class? I'm trying to remember where Somalia. I think I've heard of it. Yeah, it's on the Horn of Africa. So I got deployed there and it was like what you would see in the movies. It was combat. It was as soon as we got to country, we did a what's called a combat landing from a C-5. There are shooting surface to air missiles at the aircraft carrier as we're coming in. Shooting at the aircraft. And it was just absolute pandemonium. The funny thing about PSTD something I've learned later, there's moments in between when we landed and we ended up going to the US embassy that absolutely I cannot remember. To this day. It's completely blacked out. Yeah, I can't remember. I have no idea what happened, but it must have been pretty interesting. So I won't go into too much of the detail of Somalia. It was it was definitely something that changed my life for good and for bad. Now much more good. But for a number of years before bad, I got out of the Marine Corps, spent a few years and got out in the nineties. And at the time I was definitely exhibiting strong symptoms of PTSD, but I had not been diagnosed. 

Trevor: I'm going to jump here just because you sound about the same vintage as me. And I was in pharmacy school in the late nineties. I don't think I ever heard the word PTSD in school. Did anybody know what you had? 

Brian Rayner: They actually had. They sent me to a psychiatrist and I was drinking really heavily. I don't I no longer drink alcohol at all. That's another thing that cannabis has been absolutely wonderful with. People with PTSD typically should not drink. Alcohol tends to lead very strongly to alcoholism, which I certainly am one. Excuse me. So they had not said those words or, you know, shell shocked. The names. It's kind of changed over the years, kind of, I think, desensitizes everybody to them. That's a whole other conversation. But they'd sent me to a psychiatrist and they you know what? Some of the things that they were they were throwing at me just didn't make any sense. They said, well, you know, you might potentially be bipolar. I thought, Yeah, that just doesn't sound right. I'm a pretty creative, intelligent person, but I just had that doesn't I think I was misdiagnosed. In fact, I'm confident that I was with those words. To answer your question. Those words were never used. I knew I knew something was amiss. And I actually went to therapy after that after getting out of the Marine Corps in the nineties. And so I started working in the technology space, consulting for a small startup software company in the health club vertical. I was drinking very, very heavily, drinking to the point of blacking out, just, you know, not drinking as a gentleman would drink. And so all through the nineties, there was a lot of a lot of that going on, but I was still able to kind of maintain my career. I still had that Marine Corps discipline that, you know, I had the times in which I would drink and there were a certain segment of times in the Times in which I simply would not drink. And I during those times, I, I did imbibe in cannabis, but not in a remedy type of fashion. You know, I viewed it at that time as a party favor. You know, I didn't look at it. And there was no education, really. I mean, it had been demonized so much. As you may recall, in the nineties. There's been this stigma associated with it. And I love I love your brand name, by the way. You got. That's a great name. The Reefer madness kind of, you know, that the stigma that was associated with it. So I kind of latched on to that. So. Well, you know, it's a party favor, you know, and I did imbibe in it. So, fast forward a little bit. So, I was able to be a consultant and do all these different things and eventually rose up into the ranks of corporate America working for these bigger organizations, consulting for small businesses to Fortune 100 corporations, did all kinds of really cool stuff, won a bunch of awards, but something was a mess. I wasn't happy. I was doing really well financially. I should have been on cloud nine. Something just still wasn't right, and I was seeking treatment through a psychiatrist. And then at one point I was talking to a Navy SEAL friend of mine in Rochester and he said, It sounds like to me buddy, like you might have PTSD. You might want to go to the VA and get evaluated. You know, you show the symptoms like I know me as well. And so I did. And I went through the evaluation process and I didn't think I honestly didn't believe because I had this stigma in my mind what a PTSD meant. And I thought, you know, I saw World War Two documentaries of veterans with PTSD were shell shocked that were just completely incapacitated. So that was the extreme end of the spectrum. And so I you know, I was in big self-denial like that. That's certainly not me. I know I've got something going on, but I know that that's not it. So they went through a very thorough, thorough psychiatric evaluation and the VA came back and said, you are, without question, suffering from PTSD. And I don't remember the medications. But at the time they gave me a handful of pills, different pills, which absolutely zombified me. If that's even a word. And in my world, I can't have anything that holds me back, even though I used to drink excessively, which for many years was a crutch and I didn't realize. These were even much worse than alcohol. And alcohol probably is one of the most destructive things on the face of the planet, in my humble opinion, the pills that they gave me and I can't remember the names of them, maybe it rattles them off. I'd probably recalled them, but they basically made me just numb to where I couldn't speak. And I definitely wasn't happy. I was not happy. I was much more miserable. I was very sedate. I couldn't function that well. It was affecting my job performance and I thought, there's got to be something else. And I was really struggling and I tried different medications and I went back and forth and even went outside. I thought, well, it's the VA. They don't know what they're doing. I got to go see, you know, I got to go see another psychiatrist, actually, you know, can charge more appropriately. And it was kind of the same song and dance, you know. So, I went through various psychiatrists, various different protocols. I tried all kinds of things. And then I was talking to a vet buddy of mine and he had PTSD and he had had it, I can't really compare the levels of severity, but I know that his case was it was pretty bad, had been quite a few years since I'd seen him and he seemed, like he was glowing. His demeanor, his demeanor had changed. He was just he seemed content. He seemed centered. And I said, dude, I got to know, you know. 

Trevor: What have you been doing. 

Brian Rayner: What's going on with you. He goes, Don't don't judge me, but I'm going to tell you. He goes, I, I've been taking edibles daily and it's been miraculous for me. And so he goes, I'm using it to treat my PTSD. It was recommended from some people that I know, the support group that I go to, a lot of the veterans there, they don't tell the VA about it because there's still that stigma. But, you know, when we're in closed door meetings and we're talking to each other. It's something that we all unanimously agree upon. I'm like all of you. Like, all of you are taking this. You're all taking cannabis and it's working for all of you. He's like, Yeah. 

Trevor: Yeah

Brian Rayner: So, at the time, I couldn't get hold of any edibles and I was in Texas. So they certainly have their, their ways of going. So I got some flower, I got some and I began smoking cannabis and it certainly helped. The edibles, I eventually was able to get my hands on some edibles and they they just seem to have the absolute right, especially certain strains. I tried all these different strains I found certain strains. It seemed to work much better for me because, as you know, every strain has got so many different little nuances to it that you can find this one strain like, Oh, I found it. I've found the one Blue Dream is exactly what I've been looking for. 

Trevor: Yeah, it's amazing how different all the strains are. Yes, we're still learning about that. 

Brian Rayner: Oh, so much. So much more research needs to be done. God bless you for what you do. You're doing, from my perspective, such a phenomenal service to humanity because there's so many answers that lie dormant within those plants that we have yet to tap and I think can be absolute lifesavers. And just with my story alone, that the matter of the fact that since that time and it's been roughly about a decade since I really identified that the cannabis could be a treatment for my PTSD and started on a regular basis using it. And then I quit drinking quite a few years ago. The fact that I can just maintain being able to just have a conversation like this, for example, being able to be involved in stressful situations and not have these triggers that would make me go overboard, that make me, you know, like go drink to excessive amounts or do like the self-destructive behavior. Over time that's one of the main things I've noticed that is absent from my life these days. And I have cannabis to thank for it, is the self-destructive behavior patterns. It seems to have really null and voided those completely out of my life. It took a little while, but over the course of time I found that by having treatments from cannabis and also I hope this is appropriate for me to talk about, I also periodically do psilocybin treatments as well, which I found to also be just absolutely phenomenal. I believe moderation is the key with with anything to be successful in life. So over the course of time, the symptoms of the PTSD, for example, the extreme insomnia, the paranoia, the anxiety, the fear, even the fear of certain situations and environments. Eventually those things went, completely went away. And I still have. There's still symptoms that pop up from time to time. Like, you know, you can't come up behind me and surprise me. There's little nuances like that that I think might stick with me for the rest of my life. But the major self-destructive patterns that were very relevant throughout my life have completely diminished. Completely diminished. And cannabis was the only only thing that I found that really did the job. That truly went after not only the symptoms but the I believe the treatments are fundamental because the cannabis along with, you know, I would go to therapy sessions where we would I would talk about our experiences. So the cannabis combined with Gestalt therapy, being able to talk to people that had similar experiences. Both of those things combined, I think is what really set me on the path to healing and also got involved in 12 step programs along the way, which were also very beneficial and helpful. But cannabis has been an absolute miracle in my life and now I'm a tech entrepreneur. I left corporate America. I've got my own business. And as a matter of fact, we you know, we got a digital artist, for example, that is also a cannabis inspired art kind of guy. So it's kind of cool because we're we're connecting with other members of the community and they're always really cool people. 

Trevor: They are always really cool people. Aren't they? 

Brian Rayner: Absolutely. 

Trevor: So Brian this is a great story, but just so I can say I did. So we started with PTSD, we're on a handful of, we'll call it prescription medications. After you discovered cannabis, I assume the handful of prescription medications went away and the alcohol went away. And yeah, so cannabis in conjunction with therapy is I won't say made PTSD go away, but to a low, low level. And you're like you said, you're now a successful functioning member of society. Is that that pretty much the thing? 

Brian Rayner: Yeah, that's the sum of it. And one of the most important things is and I was just talking to my mother down in Texas about this. She's she's still kind of a, she's coming around. She still kind of has that old school reefer madness mentality and she's been having insomnia. And I told her, I said, Mom, let me tell you something, that the best thing you can do, start off with some little gummies, take a little bit at night and you will sleep like a baby. You know, my little brother passed away a few years ago. My father my brother passed away within a month of each other. 

Trevor: Oh that's Terrible. 

Brian Rayner: Yeah, it was. He was young and he had had quite a few issues and, you know, God rest both of their souls. But, you know, she's dealing still dealing with some anxiety from that. You know, that was my younger brother, her youngest. So she's still kind of going through some real interesting problems as a result of that. And I told her, I said, listen, I know that, you know, this this has been demonized. I was just talking to her about this the other night. I said, listen, cannabis has been so missed categorized over the years. It's been so demonized. And it's from my perspective, it's been intentional. It's a nefarious reason behind it. It's not a reason to help humanity. It's not it's not those reasons at all as to why it's been demonized. That's a whole other whole other podcast. But I told her, I said, you needed those stigmas. You've been lied to. You've been absolutely lied to. Those stigmas you have, they're not real. That perception you have. I'm like, I'm telling you, if you try some cannabis in the evenings, I can guarantee you this, this anxiety you're feeling, these things that are keeping you from sleeping every night will go away. I'm living proof. I told her. I said, You remember how I used to be? You remember how I used to be, how bad off I was? I said, Mom, I'm here to tell you cannabis is what saved me. It's saved me. It literally. I imbibe daily in the evenings. I have I had my evening dose and I sleep like a baby.  I don't have any. I use to have to take sleep medications. They gave me Ambien at one point, which was, oh boy, you want to have a roller coaster ride, try some Ambien. That stuff? Well, yeah, I was sleepwalking. Like, not even knowing where I was going at night. Crazy stuff like that. So anyways, I take none of that stuff. The only thing I think I take every day to take a little bit of blood pressure medicine levothyroxine that that's the only prescription medications that I take everything else I believe and I'm a firm believer that our great creator does not make mistakes. We do. And anything that comes out of the ground, I mean, there's a reason for that. It's a benefit to us. We should embrace that. And the reason that's been demonized, from my humble perspective, is a very nefarious effort by big government and big pharma to squash the the one thing that they could certainly prove to be so beneficial to everybody that was not a part of their quarterly profit margins. You know, and I do believe that has a lot to do with it. 

Trevor: Oh, I'm sure you're right. And tell your mom it's still in production, so I don't know exactly when they'll be released, But we've got one coming up. We're interviewing a doctor who who treats a lot of older people and the title's going to be Green is the New Gray. Yeah. Older people and cannabis and yeah, no, it's, she's not the only one. It's amazing. I mean, in the pharmacy we see I see the majority of my patients let's say are in the 75 ish. So you know we have ones who, you know, don't want to have anything to do with it. But others who, you know, my son or my grandson said I should try this. What do you think? And, you know, they just like you said, they just need a little, little hand-holding, a little you know, they've got a bunch of other medical conditions. So we have to be a little bit careful. But, you know, by and large, if they start low, go slow and, you know, keep their doctors in the loop of what they're doing. It's worked really well for a lot of them. 

Brian Rayner: Yeah, I always like to throw in the Willie Nelson clause because I'm a I'm from Texas and any of the any of the a little bit older generations they kind of demonize it, you like Willie Nelson, right. Because everybody in Texas liked Willie Nelson. Could Willie Nelson possibly be wrong about this?

Trevor: That's a great line. I'm going to use that one. 

Brian Rayner: Yeah. Willie Nelson is about as cool as cool gets. And I think in Texas, it's impossible for anybody from Texas to not like Willie Nelson. I don't think I've met one single person that had a bad thing to say about Willie Nelson in Texas. I think it's impossible. 

Trevor: Kirk. So but before we talk about Brian, I promise remind you about when you walking into a nursing college. 

Kirk: Oh, no. Let's finish. Let's wrap on Brian first,. 

Trevor: Okay?

Kirk: And then and then go to the nursing college. But what I, what I one of the what I found interesting about this gentleman is that he's first of all, you met him on LinkedIn, right? 

Trevor: Yep.

Kirk: Okay. 

Trevor: And he and I have got to be almost the same age was just fascinating to me that, you know, he's talking about bands he really liked and that's why he wants to be, you know, stationed in California. Well, those are bands I liked. And, you know, and, you know, listening to your Gulf War one, while Gulf War One happened when I was like in first year university, I remember screwing up on a test because he was staying up all night watching live on TV these missiles going in there was just. 

Kirk: CNN. 

Trevor: Yeah. So but, you know, I was watching on TV. He eventually was they're not in Gulf War One, but you get the idea. So, yeah, it's to me, it was really one of the really interesting parts is him and I have got to be very close to the same age. And so I was thinking when he was in Somalia, I was pharmacy school. 

Kirk: Yeah, Yeah, I know. It's, it, yeah. It's interesting to put yourself in a place where you hear someone having an experience you go, Oh, well, I wasn't there, you know, I was having first world problems. You're trying to keep your head on your shoulders, literally. 

Trevor: Yeah.

Kirk: But he's, he's now, he's now in the tech and we're talking off camera about, about his business and what is it JT

Trevor: JTB Online. 

Kirk: I was saying to you, I found it interesting that his generic top level domain is dot io, which is very difficult to find and means in out. So it's kind of a cool high tech link to the podcast as well. 

Trevor: Yeah. No. And I said it a few times there, but I'll say it again, I think, well, my take home, there's many take homes. It's a fascinating story and I'm glad that he's, you know, come out the other side. But it's the bad things happened. He muddled his way through. You know, he was still, you know, a productive member of society. But, you know, he was drinking too much and didn't like the way his life was going. And then, you know, sought counseling and sought, you know, psychiatrists and prescription meds and none of it was really doing it. Then, you know, through a buddy discovered cannabis. But I think and that's all good, don't get me wrong, that's all fantastic. But it's just the and then becomes a completely functional member of society, but you know its stoners what are they going to do.  Here is someone using cannabis daily who is a successful serial entrepreneur who you know is into the tech sector, who is creative every day like, you know, things are going really well for someone who is using cannabis to manage one of their conditions. 

Kirk: Yeah, and this isn't the first time we've talked about about cannabis being used for PTSD. We've got several episodes. The most the most prominent one, of course, is with Dr. Mike Hart on episode 42, we get into the heart of the matter and discuss it. I've also written blog pieces on this, on how some of the some of the research out there is talk about Anandamide being your body being short, low levels anandamide. And that can be a precursor to how your body copes with post traumatic stress disorder. So these are all very interesting components of the endocannabinoid system and how cannabis can help people who have these kind of traumatic events and help them as medicine. That's why I like this. This is a story of cannabis being used successfully once again as medicine. 

Trevor: Yeah, and so much so that, you know, his mom is having some issues with, you know, very unfortunate situations, death of her son, death of her husband, and, you know, someone who's sort of been there, done that says, hey, mom, I know, you know, they might not be high on your list of things, but, you know, think about cannabis, because it worked for me and, you know, people that struck a chord with me because I get asked that as a pharmacist all the time. Well, if you were, you know, they said, what would you like to do this? I like to do that. Well, patients ask me all the time. Well, if you were giving it to your mother, what one would you pick? Well, this is it. If. If we're going to give it to his mother, he picks cannabis. 

Kirk: Yeah. This now, segues to me, reminding you about my visit to the local college. On March 1st, I posted a blog piece of cannabis as a partner in health care planning. And this is an example about how I don't want to call it traditional medicine because cannabis is ultimately traditional medicine. I don't want to call it Western medicine because cannabis has been part of the Western system for many years before Prohibition hit. So what would you call regular non-cannabis prescribing medical system? 

Trevor: Conventional.

Kirk: Conventional. The conventional system isn't looking to cannabis to help, I believe, through these 100 and by this time hundred two, 203 episodes that cannabis can be a partner in health care planning, right? Cannabis helps decrease prescription costs. Cannabis helps lower polypharmacy. Cannabis helps people with PTSD to be off stronger drugs. Cannabis helps people wean off street drugs. Cannabis builds better homes and health systems are ignoring it. So segueing to the college, I was invited to come to our local college and speak to the Licensed Practical Nursing Program students who are now in their second year about my northern clinical experiences. And I've done this. I've done this a few times were and it was all through COVID. Most of it was Zoom meetings. I would talk to students about working in remote communities as a registered nurse and the type of practice it is. Well, as I'm there and I'm plugging in, the students informed me that they they've had this this, this presentation online last year because they were first year last year and I presented it. So I said to them, Well, we want to talk about cannabis. And they all said, Yeah, let's talk about cannabis. So I looked at the instructor and said, Do you mind? Let's talk about cannabis. And she said, You've got 45 minutes have at her. So I called up our web page, which is reefermed.ca, and I started talking about all the experiences we've had. Now, I did not go in there with a lesson plan. I do have a cannabis lesson plan that I've presented to other people. But this one, I just got in there and started winging it and talking about cannabis and how it can help health care. And here are new students. Here are things that triggered, right? The students have yet to be taught the endocannabinoid system so well. 

Trevor: I think I have. I've mentioned before I was talking to medical students well before Christmas and that was their first question. So. So endo what now? And I don't blame them. I didn't I didn't learn an endocannabinoid system in school. I guess I'm just surprised that they're still not learning endocannabinoid system in school. 

Kirk: Wasn't discovered to the early nineties. I mean, come on, my generation of health care practitioners, we have an excuse but since the aughts you know this should have been part of all education this is this is a system that manages our homeostasis. So I got to talk to nursing students about the endocannabinoid system. I got to talk to nursing students about cannabis as an exit drug. I got to talk to them about cannabis being used to help the elderly. I got to talk about cannabis. It was so exciting and it just made me think I miss the classroom. I spend a lot of time in the classroom in my early career. I missed the classroom. And also not just that we're we're failing our future, our future health care practitioners. And we are failing communities now that cannabis is still we're still viewing cannabis through the Cannabis Act, meaning that people still view cannabis as a substance that's being misused. It's not a substance that's being misused in medicine. It is a substance that is helping people in medicine. And it's time. It's just time that the health care systems get their heads in the right place. And, you know, you could fill in the blank what I wanted to say. I think it's time. I think it's time the systems do that. And for those people that are interested in my my soapbox on Reefermed -The Podcast, we have we have a blog window and there are several pieces on how cannabis can help. And I think it's time we get into that. And I think I think in 2023, Trevor, I'm going to be starting to push that more and more. I submitted an article, I submitted an article to the Canadian Nursing Association magazine, so maybe I'll get published to the magazine. I don't know, but I'm going to try to get I'm going to try to get the message out there through the blog and through letters to the editor and that kind of stuff. 

Trevor: I guess I should say. I'm Trevor: Sheffield. I'm the pharmacist. 

Kirk: I'm Kirk: Nyquist. I'm a registered nurse and we are Reefer Medness - The Podcast found on all of those platforms out there. Give us a review. If you're like us, if you don't like us, send us an email saying how we can improve. We do this completely off script as you as you might be able to tell. And basically just trying to share the concept that cannabis cannabis can help systems, it can help people. And as health care providers, it's interesting to have this platform. 

Trevor: It is. And thanks again, everybody. Until next time, Have a good day. 

Rene All right, guys. That was another good one. It's Rene here back in the studio. A couple of things to clean up before we go. We always like to mention that Reefer Madness, the podcast acknowledges that we produce our shows on Treaty two territory, which is the homeland of the Metis. We pay our respects to the First Nations and Metis the ancestors of this land, and we reaffirm our relationships. We also end each episode with a request from our guest, and Bryan had asked for a song by The Cure called A Forest.