Episode Transcript

Trevor: Kirk. Well, I am back. You are not? 

Kirk: No, I am not. I am in the south South Baja, what's called the East Cape of Baja, Mexico. California Sur. 

Trevor: Sounds lovely. 

Kirk: Sucks to be me dude. Sucks to be me. 

Trevor: Well, I was going to say, I did see your dog a couple of days ago, and Ginny misses you. But she was very happy to see all people. 

Kirk: Ya, she's a happy dog. 

Trevor: Ginny says hi. So now we've established where on the planet you are. We got to chat to Kieley again. 

Kirk: Yes. This is her third time. 

Trevor: I was going to say, I'm sure she's setting the record for the most number of interviews on Reefer Medness, but she keeps doing such interesting things. I saw a blurb on one of the social media saying, you know, she was doing different things and had to do with mergers and acquisitions in the cannabis world. I thought, Well, that sounds interesting. Why don't we call up Kieley? Kieley again is doing some new and interesting stuff. Any any thoughts about the direction she's going before we just sort of let her start talking. 

Kirk: Going back on. She was with us in Episode 34 when she talked about sex and had you blushing. 

Trevor: She did. 

Kirk: And she was also with us in Calgary when we when we did Buyer Beware Episode 78. So this is her third episode. 

Trevor: I think it's fourth because I think she was in between on one of the Grow episodes. I think she was one of our grow panel. 

Kirk: That's right. The craft panelists. That's right. That's Episode 63. So, yes, correct. And we've mentioned a couple of times also. So she if you Google her, Google her on our web page www.reefermed.ca she'll come up. Her name comes up often but I was listening to the story today walking around the beach and what you brought really is a is My Cannabis Story of a cannabis entrepreneur. 

Trevor: I couldn't agree more. I was again not that thought that we didn't know already that Kieley: was involved in lots of things and continues to be. But yeah, this is this is what are we going to say? The maturing of an entrepreneur, you know, one of her many projects is she started Parkland Flower, grew Parkland Flower. And you know, we'll let her talk more about what happened to it. It's all good. It's all good. But yeah, this is the maturing of an entrepreneur, the entrepreneur moving on to maybe another project and has, of course, lots of interesting cannabis related stories along the way. So I think that's a good segue way. Is any to that Kieley: talk about where where she's at and what she's doing. 

Kirk: Sure. Let's just listen to her story. 

Trevor: Here's Kieley. Kieley I think the last time I think we were talking to you was in person in Calgary, and that was in relation to Parkland Flower. I know you might not be able to go into all the details, but what's new and exciting with Parkland Flower today? 

Kieley: Well, when I when I spoke with you folks last in in Calgary, their Parkland Flower had just been acquired. So, which was really exciting and unexpected, really. And, you know, they've kind of taken over the operation. I stayed on for a year, got them through their first Health Canada inspection, their first CRA inspection and audit, and then got them in to the two sales licenses. So they are now licensed for dried flower as well as extracts, edibles, and topicals. And the agreement I had made with them was to stay on for a year minimum, to get everything transitioned over all the new shareholders as well as, you know, making sure everybody had their security clearances and whatnot. And once that was done, I took a break. 

Trevor: Okay. Note that that is great and congratulations. 

Kieley: Yeah, I finished up in July and took about three months off. I did a little bit of traveling. I went to the Unicorn Cup in Salmo, B.C., which was amazing out at Shay's Rosebud Farms. And, and then I also went up north to the Lytton area and got to to hang out at High Mountain Organics, which is they just got licensed as well. And so yeah, I just did a little bit of traveling, took some time off with my kids and was trying to figure out where I was going to go in the space. So that took a little bit. I went out to Niagara Falls for Grow Up where Parkland Flower won Craft Grower of the Year, which was very exciting. And I thought, you know, I was really proud of the folks. They did a great job last year. And so to get that award was a was a really great sort of cherry on top of maybe, you know, finishing up that sort of era of my career. I then I ran into David Hyde at Grow Up and, you know, he basically said, you're a free agent now. And I said, Yes, I am. 

Trevor: So tell us a little bit about David Hyde and what he does. 

Kieley: Well, David, you know, David is a staple in the cannabis community in the Canadian cannabis industry. You know, he started, you know, at 360 security, you know, built that business, sold it. He has helped with licensing close to half of every LP in Canada. David was involved in that. And, you know, he's been licensing cannabis companies, you know, for over ten years now. And so he has a depth of knowledge of the regulatory environment, not just in Canada, but also in the U.S., in the U.K., Germany, Australia, New Zealand. And so, you know, about three years ago, what they were starting to see is this consolidation right, in the marketplace. You know, you've got cannabis companies that are growing and need additional capacity, or you have investors that sat on the fence and waited to enter the space, which was, you know, the case with Parkland Flower. David introduced me to the group that acquired my company. And so it was just a really, a really great fit. You know, I have literally built a company start from the very beginning, from construction, all the way through to an acquisition, which is, you know, for a lot of companies, that's kind of the dream, Right. Is to to build something, sell it and, you know, start something new. And so, yeah, when David and I started talking and I, I joined the organization in at the very end of September, and I've been there ever since and I am really enjoying this side of the space. What's really, you know, David and his team are all out in Ontario, and so they were really focused on Ontario, Quebec, sort of the east, the east side of Canada. And they really needed someone out here on the west side. So really from Manitoba to British Columbia, I'm boots on the ground out here and hence why I'm in Vancouver today. 

Trevor: Yeah, we were just before we got on air here the last couple of days, there's been some terrible weather in the Lower mainland and you were just saying how you luckily got through from Kelowna to Vancouver without hitting the snow storm. So congratulations. 

Kieley: I think I hit the eye of the storm. 

Trevor: Excellent. So, no, that's very exciting. So that is that sort of the deal now is you go from LP to LP to see what they need and what the Hyde Group can offer them something along those lines. 

Kieley: Well, really, I look at us as like a cannabis matchmaking organization. We, you know, we have a wonderful roster of investors that are looking to, you know, acquire or put some money into the space. And then, of course, we have a number of LPs that are actively seeking either a strategic partnership, you know, they're trying to access capital or they are looking to fully divest their operation. And, you know, we have a really great team that can go in, you know, put a value on the operation. And, you know, a lot of folks when it comes to selling a property, you know, if they own the asset, you know, their first instinct is to go to a realtor, to a commercial realty company, which is fine. The difference that we provide or the value that we provide is that we can really put a value on the cannabis operation, not just the value of the building. So we bring that additional value and also bringing in cannabis related businesses that want to build. So we have seen, you know, some spaces that have gone the realtor route and they're going to get that the, the value of the land and the and maybe the facility, but they might end up selling to in an operation that has nothing to do with cannabis. They turn it into, you know, storage or some other manufacturing operation. So that's where we bring value. And what we're also seeing in the space, you know, especially globally, we see some U.S. MSOs wanting to, you know, they've been waiting for federal legalization. 

Trevor: What's an MSO? 

Kieley: MSOs are multistate operator okay. 

Trevor: Because it's not federally legal. 

Kieley: So, nothing is federally legal there. So every state the same as we have in the provinces where every province has its own regulatory environment. You know, Saskatchewan, you know, is kind of a wild, wild west. You can, you know, you just have to get a license and you can sell anywhere.  Alberta you have to go through a lot more rigmarole to get into being able to sell there, like basically a second security clearance. And so in the United States, it's a similar environment in that as each state becomes legal, a cannabis company, if they want to operate in another state, they basically have to kick off a new business. So there's multiple U.S. cannabis companies that are operating in multiple states, hence the multistate operator. And because of the lag on the federal legalization, they are looking to Canada to get a brand out, to be able to list on a publicly traded, you know, forum, you know, looking to go public or also looking to be able to export products under their brand to you know other European markets or the Australian market. Israel is another market that is quite robust right now and is looking at Canada for biomass. 

Trevor: Wow. So just for an example. So let's say I'm trying to start up something in Oregon I might want to buy or partner with a LP in Saskatchewan and then could I physically ship my product from Oregon to Saskatchewan for sale there? 

Kieley: No, this would be a branding slash licensing play. Okay. You know, building brand recognition. Increasing revenues of the company where, you know, you're basically landlocked, your border locked with your with the ability to you know, to bring your biomass to other markets. And so and it's the same, you know, from state to state. You cannot bring product from Oregon to Florida or even next door to Washington. You cannot do that at all. So you actually build smaller operations in multiple states or multiple countries to help build your brand, to build your intellectual property. That's another really important one. You know, they want to partner with companies. There are companies in Canada right now that the innovations that they are providing are, you know, they're really cutting edge. They're really into a lot of interesting technologies. And because they have that value, you've got brands coming up from the U.S. trying to capitalize on that intellectual property. 

Trevor: Well, that's very exciting and stuff we had no idea about.  That's very cool. So you're predominantly western Canada. Oh, I'll throw this in sort of a little bit of a tangent, but because we're in the middle of it and you've been in the middle of it for a while, all of a new federal review of the Cannabis Act, any thoughts, commentary you want to throw on what you think is going well or badly or our hope they change or hope they don't? 

Kieley: Well.

Trevor: I know a huge question, but we. 

Kieley: We all know our good StratCann friend David Brown. And you know, I'm just going to take a note from David's book is that the Canadian Cannabis Act, the purpose of it, was to keep cannabis out of the hands of youth. It was to reduce mental illness and ensure that the health and safety of Canadians and it was to keep illicit operators out of, you know, trying to basically move the industry from illicit operations to legal operations. And those were the main goals of the Cannabis Act. And so this is a review. I've seen a lot of talk about how there's no industry, there's no industry involvement on the panel like that. There's, I believe, four panelists that are that are looking into it. And a lot of them are substance abuse professionals, you know, PhDs, doctors that are, you know, really on the side of public health and safety, which is the purpose of Health Canada and the Cannabis Act. So this review is really looking to see if that was successful in this three year experiment that we've been doing here. And it's not an economic review, that's not the purpose of the Cannabis Act. However, there have been some new regulations that have changed and those changed throughout the year, depending on how much pressure gets put on Health Canada to make some of those changes. So an exciting change that has come about is the limits on beverages. So, you know, prior to that change of the regulations, you know, you were only able to buy maybe five or six beverages every time you went into a store. And so what's really neat now is you can buy up to 48 beverages at a time, which, you know, at a time like Christmas, when friends and family are now gathering, people are getting together. You want to be able to have enough beverages for those people without having to make multiple stops at multiple stores in order to to do that. So that's a great change. Obviously, it still doesn't change the fact that, you know, a company cannot put out a six pack of beverages because the edible, drinkable equivalency is still that ten milligrams per package. So, you know, we will see how this all works out. I think you're going to start seeing beverage companies that maybe send, you know, a little six pack boxes so that retailers can put six drinks in there for a customer and certainly make it a clunky retail experience and transaction. You know, I still believe that they have not gone far enough in the edibles changes. You know, being only able to purchase ten milligrams per package is, you know, it's akin to, you know, only being able to get two Tylenol every time you go to an over-the-counter purchase of medications. So, you know that we'll get there. I think we're going to get there. But yeah, at this time, you know, they're obviously listening. Health Canada is obviously listening and they are making those changes. Another great change that's come about is the for the R&D licenses. Now I'm not as up on an on these changes, but but being able to do palatability studies you know being able to taste test your product prior to it going into a package and understanding the flavor the smoke-ability, the effect, all of these types of things where it's a non-therapeutic use is really important commerce wise to commercialize a product. Imagine putting out cookies and you're not allowed, you can't taste tests, you're going to putting them into a package. 

Trevor: Well, we. 

Kieley: Some of these changes will be really, really great. 

Trevor: So, absolutely, we use the compound stuff for kids and in the pharmacy and yes, you really, really people hated it because some of the things we it tasted awful. But, you know, I'd walk around the pharmacy, Hey, taste a little bit of this. No, not again. No, this one tastes okay. But yeah, if it's going out to a kid, the first thing is, is it going to taste good or else they're not going to take it. So, yes, that makes perfect sense. We might circle back, but because it was it was cool. We saw that, you know, you might have a future in, I don't know, professional gymnastics. Something about you being in and your club being interviewed on CBC. I heard a little blurb. It was a great story. Can you tell the audience a little bit about you and gymnastics and CBC? 

Kieley: Well, I mean, I am no gymnast and I certainly have no aspirations of going to the Olympics. I don't think a 42 year old mom of three will be entering the Olympics any time soon. But my kids were all in gymnastics. And the club fired up this new program called Captivate Gymnastics. And it's just it's an adult gymnastics class. And I just thought it would be something fun, something to get me moving. I grew up in rural Newfoundland. There was no gymnastics club for, you know, I think the closest gymnastic club was 6 hours away. So it was something and I mean, I watched gymnastics on the Olympics my whole life. Instead, we had figure skating, So athletic wise, I was more of a figure skater on ice than I was a gymnast. But I just thought it was something fun and cool that I could do with my kids. And it's really neat that, you know, we'd learn a new track and we tell each other what we learned. And then I could also understand what my kids were talking about, you know, when they're doing certain moves. But I knew what they were, what they were talking about. And and, you know, it was just a fun way for us to bond and have some fun. I have to say, gymnasts are incredible, incredible athletes. That is certainly what I have learned. And it is not an easy skill to learn. 

Trevor: No, thank you. And I wasn't trying embarrass you. It was a very cute story. I was listening on the radio one day and they're talking about gymnastics in Edmonton somewhere. And then I saw a blurb on one of the social media is about Kieley: in gymnastics and I bet that was Kieley's group they were interviewing. So that was it was just it was really neat little story. Thank you for letting me drive down the diversion. 

Kieley: I'll add gymnastics and cannabis. I tell you, I coming home at night and then the next day cannabis edibles were my friend for recovery from gymnastics because believe me, I hurt in muscles I didn't know I had. 

Trevor: I'm sure. So we are getting short on time and you've into so many things, so I'm sure we've missed up. But anything I missed this time round. Anything else you want the people to know about the Hyde group or anything else that you've been doing lately? 

Kieley: Yeah. You know, I'm really excited for 2023 in the Canadian cannabis space. You know, it's been a lot of doom and gloom for a lot of years. And, you know, we're seeing a lot of businesses closed down and, you know, it's that clickbait information that gets out there. The bad stories always overshadow, you know, the good that's happening in the space. So, I mean, one of the metrics, I mean, number one is, is there's more cannabis being sold legally now than there has ever been before. It continually goes up. You may have a little dip here, certain seasons and whatnot, but we are seeing a constant increase in the amount of cannabis being sold. Today. We are seeing Canadian cannabis companies that are even a positive, meaning that they are profitable and are making good revenues. They have found their niche. That's another thing you know Canadian cannabis companies have a lot of us had threw mud at a wall to see what worked and sort of have carved out niches now, you know, a lot of co-packing companies that are really focused on one value added product. And on the other side, you're seeing a lot of companies close down and consolidate. And in I believe in 2023, we have seen, you know, probably almost the bottom of that where, you know, whatever companies that are kind of shutting down are going to be shut down and we're going to see another upward trend. I am definitely seeing a lot of cannabis companies that their biggest problem right now is that they don't have enough capacity for production. And they're waiting, they're waiting on the fence right now. They're seeing what's going to happen. They're seeing, you know, cannabis companies that are purchasing other companies for, you know, $0.40 on the dollar of what they were built out for. And, you know, with supply chain issues, with COVID, the increase in construction costs and things like that, the industry is poised for consolidation. And I think 2023 is going to be pretty exciting. We're going to see a lot more export of products. Right now, we are seeing so much product going into Australia, into Israel and into the European markets. And of course, as each country comes online, we're going to see even more of that. And so yeah, it's going to be exciting as much as we hear a lot of doom and gloom, you know, I think there's definitely silver linings that, you know, companies that are were able to survive and could get through a crisis are able to really, really jump on these opportunities. So it's going to be an exciting year. 

Trevor: Well, that's great to hear and that's a fantastic, nice, positive note to end on. Kieley: again, thank you very much. We always appreciate talking with you. 

Kieley: Yeah, it was great. Great to see you. And I'm sure we'll catch up partway through 2023 and see if maybe my predictions are to come to reality. 

Trevor: So, Kirk, as usual, I've made a couple notes. So, she sold Parkland Flower. But in the meantime, around the time of the sale, they won an award at one of the cannabis shows for, you know, crafter over the year. So congratulations are well-deserved. And now she's described yourself as a cannabis matchmaker. 

Kirk: Yeah, yeah. I'm looking at, I'm looking at a web page, the Hyde Advisory and Investment Group, our global cannabis industry trusted advisers to the global cannabis industry. 

Trevor: Yes. So I didn't and she, she went into it and. But lots of stuff I didn't think about like, well, MSO, which was a multistate operator. So, you know, let's say you were a cannabis company in the US. If you want to be in multiple states, you have to literally have a company in multiple states because the cannabis product cannot cross state lines. Even if you have two states right next to each other where it's legal. And if you were at MSO, you might want brand awareness in Canada. And so then maybe you'll want to partner up. Again, you can't ship your product to the to Canada, but, you know, maybe you can talk with a Canadian grower and have them brand some of their stuff at and under your umbrella. Maybe some of the cannabis companies in Canada are doing some interesting things, and the intellectual property, I'm assuming, could go back and forth. Let's say you're a light maker, you would had a new process for making gummies or something, I don't know. So someone can jump in and say what new and exciting cannabis tech there is out there. But I just didn't think about all the sort of potential relationships between Canadian and U.S. cannabis companies. 

Kirk: And what this company that she's now working with, the Hyde Group. They are. They're an international company. I'm just looking on the web page. They've got 50 licensed cannabis businesses for sale, so they're like almost a realtor for cannabis companies. They've also consulted over 2000 hemp companies and cannabis companies. I imagine in the States that's a big issue with farmers. I imagine they've got a big business in hemp business, I would assume in the States. Yeah, no, it looks like they're a going concern in the cannabis industry in regards to offering advice. 

Trevor: Yeah, and I like the matchmaker analogy, you know, Tinder for cannabis or whatever. You know, you've got a company that for whatever reason you have grown up in Canada and want to divest yourself. Look at me using economic terms. You're going to divest yourself of your company in Canada. But you know, we've got a company in the US that is looking to buy one up and you know, things like that, you know, it might not be just as easy as going on cannabis Tinder and saying, Hey, I've got a company for sale or, you know, unfortunately bad things happen. Like, you know, I have to sell my company because of X, Y, Z, and someone else, frankly could get a good deal. Or I just thought that was. Yeah, I think I thought that was a cool thing. 

Kirk: Yeah, I'm really excited for her. You know, she talked to us about her early days with cannabis and going around people's houses, like almost doing Tupperware stuff, teaching people about cannabis. Then she opens up a small cannabis cultivation group and she grew that company and then she sold it and took three months off. Good for her. Like, it's like it's almost listing to her as if she's a dot.com company, right?  

Trevor: And so off of the Hyde Group, not that they're not interesting, but I like some of the stuff she was saying about the Cannabis Act review. So I thought she did a good job because I frankly forget sometimes that just reminding us the point of the Cannabis Act. So that was to keep cannabis out of the hands of youth, to reduce mental illness and to ensure health and safety of Canadians and keep the illicit operators out. So that was kind of the overriding ideas behind the Cannabis Act. So during this Cannabis Act review, not surprising, those are the things they're looking at to see if they are sort of making the grade on that or how, how things could change for to in relation to those three points. 

Kirk: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, we got to remember the Cannabis Act is written for recreational cannabis and by de facto it affects the medical cannabis side. But, still in the review and we've talked about this before there's Health Canada is trying to blend the two. 

Trevor: Yes. And as we've said several times before, we don't think that's a good idea even for many, many reasons. But let's go to the simplest. Medical patients tend to be looking for different things and recreational users. Even just, you know, the amount of THC, etc. or, or, you know, oils versus smokable. So, you know, they're. Same plant, but different intentions. 

Kirk: Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. You know, medical cannabis and recreational cannabis are different only in philosophy. Not by plant, not by cultivation, not necessarily by companies. I think most of the cultivators are trying to get into the recreational market because obviously that's a boom. And. But the medical cannabis is it's still cannabis is it's still a plant. 

Trevor: And completely unrelated because I don't know if we can edit it properly so I have what I'll just throw out. I didn't mean to call Kieley's gymnastics cute. That wasn't worded right. Let me try this again. I am phenomenally impressed. As an adult, Kiely did pick up pickleball or some other adult onset sport. She picked possibly the most difficult sport on the planet. Gymnastics. To sort of pick up as an adult. And I am very, very impressed. Cute was not the right word I was looking for. Very impressed by picking up a phenomenally difficult sport. 

Kirk: I speaking of, I played pickleball the other day for the first time. 

Trevor: I am assuming it was fun and not as hard as gymnastics. 

Kirk: Oh no, I didn't have to know. Thank God I was. I was playing in sandals. So there is there is a lot, my leg muscles are a little stiff. No, it's just the pickleball down the down the desert here, the little pickleball court. Yeah, I think. I think I was cute playing it, though. 

Trevor: Oh, you're always cute. So I really enjoyed that catch up with Kieley. And, you know, as usual, we hope to hear new and interesting things about her and the Hyde Group as time goes on. Any other thoughts, concerns on this one? 

Kirk: I guess I'm Kirk: Nyquist. I'm the registered nurse. 

Trevor: I'm Trevor: Shewfelt. I'm the pharmacist. You can find us as the Kirk: mentioned, off the hop at Reefermed.ca and on most of the social media is that some version @reefermedness. You know check on social media, go to the website, leave a comment, tell a friend that's usually your thing, but I'll throw that in there and they'll tell two friends and so on and so on. But on that, this was a nice catch up with Kieley. Learned a lot and gymnastics is impressive not cute. 

Rene Thanks, guys. It's Rene back here at the studio. Couple of things left to do. One is we always like to mention that at Reefer Medness - The Podcast, we like to acknowledge that we produce shows Treaty two Territory and Homeland of the Metis, and we'd like to pay our respects to the First Nations and Metis ancestors of this land. And we reaffirm our relationships. We also like to play a request from our guest at the end of every episode and Kieley: had asked that we perhaps play Smoke two Joints by Sublime. So that's what we'll do. Thanks for listening, everyone.