Episode Transcript

Trevor:  Kirk. We're back.

Kirk: Hey, Trevor. How's it going?

Trevor: Good. And you are actually back. We haven't seen each other in person for a while. You and Van Hoot and Michelle and River the dog have been, have been around.

Kirk: Well, we went around in June and July and did a five-week tour of British Columbia, and we. Yeah, we gathered road stories and we went and visited old friends and saw high school friends and cannabis friends and got stories. And this is a story catching up with, Ted Smith with the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club.

Trevor: And I want to get into that, but since I didn't really go anywhere, you know, they say you can travel two ways. You can travel around the world, or you can stand still and watch the world come to you. So this summer, there was, terrible fire in Jasper, Alberta, and it sort of kind of visited me in the pharmacy. I was working, I was working a weekend, and a lady came in for, frankly a more complicated prescription than, you know, your average blood pressure pill, a diabetes pill. It was it was an expensive injection that, you know, is sometimes hard to get in. It's one of these things that sort of falls in your lap on a weekend that go ahh, I don't even know where to begin, but I was very lucky. She had been in contact with people earlier in the week, and the doctor had done all the right paperwork and everything fell into place, or what should have been a I don't know what to do with us on a weekend. Suddenly it was all there, ready to go. So, you know, I just had to chat with her a little bit and get it all sorted out. And there. I hadn't seen her before, and the reason was she was actually a Jasper evacuee. So, you know, it's a busy weekend and you get to chat with her a whole bunch, but got to chat to her a little bit. And then, just as she was getting ready to leave, she said, can I get a selfie? A selfie, I guess, sure. And it wasn't for her. So the girls in the store that I was working with got a just a real hoot out of me getting a selfie in the middle of my shift. A friend of hers and another pharmacist, and in fact, the pharmacist I was getting the transfer from who couldn't be in her pharmacy at that point because everyone was out of Jasper. So I was remotely getting info from, her name is Tasha Porttin. Her store in Jasper, is the Jasper Mettra Pharmacy. And apparently Tasha is a big fan of Reefer Medness. So this lady knew Tasha, knew Tasha listened to Reefer Medness and thought since she was in Dauphin, she might as well get, a selfie with, you know, half of Reefer Medness and send it to Tasha.

Kirk: Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'm going to stop you there. Good punchline. So, this lady's this lady is a Jasper evacuee. She's in Dauphin for whatever reason. And she came to the Dauphin pharmacy knowing, she was hoping she would have the Reefer Medness pharmacist on call.

Trevor: I think it was just a happy coincidence. You know, for those who don't know, we're are the biggest pharmacy in town, and we're the most likely to be able to bring in this more complicated prescription, yada, yada. So I think she was going to go there anyway, but happened to see my name tag or the picture on the wall or whatever.

Kirk: and she recognized you.

Trevor: So apparently. Yeah. So, so she recognized me as her friend, the pharmacist, Tasha's person that she'd listen to on. So, yeah, Tasha, the pharmacist who wasn't there is the Reefer Medness fan. And, this lady in the process of getting her prescription filled, took a selfie with me to send back to Tasha, who is also a Jasper evacuee.

Kirk: That's a coincidence, you know. That's cool, that's cool.

Trevor: Yeah. And I just, you know, we don't have an enormous platform, but it's getting a little bigger every day. But because it's been it's such a, you know, a third of the town of Jasper burned and lots of we thought we better do something. So I was talking to Tasha Porttin and she recommended for a place if people want to donate as the Jasper Community Team Society. And I'm going to put a link in the show notes, so if people want to make donations to help for the recovery of Jasper. They can.

Kirk: Well, Jasper is a pretty special place. Beautiful place. I haven't been there since.  We were quite down south and we're quite up north. We didn't go to Jasper on this road trip. So cool. I stopped in at Merritt, B.C. and went to a couple of cannabis stores, which I will again discuss in another episode, but went into a pharmacy, dropped off a poster thinking they would kick me out. No, they spent five minutes talking to me about our podcast and took a poster, but I digress. People come back to the next episodes. When we went on our road stories, we're going to talk about Ted Smith today on this episode and the, and the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club. And, just a reminder for some of our listeners, we have visited, the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club, a few times in S3E4 - Part One Healing Communities and Episode 86 - Healing Communities, Part three, The Cost of Compassion, where we learned about their fines. So a quick review here. In 1996, the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club was, started up. It was documented it was for serious medical conditions. Today it is one of the oldest compassion clubs in Canada. And as Ted will tell you, what is the threat of a $20 million worth of fines?

Trevor: $20 million?

Kirk: Yeah. What did you think of the interview?

Trevor: I really liked it. So two things. Well one, well, I'm not giving too much away. We're going to lead into the Ted interview with you being in a cannabis smoking lounge, but I'll let you set that up in a second. But the thing that sort of jumped out at me the whole time, Ted is definitely a multitasker, because you could just hear Ted was doing business the whole time you guys were talking. It seemed like a steady stream of Buyers Club members coming in to get their medicine. And you were saying also to give people visual. What was Ted's hard work working on when he wasn't sort of taking people's money?

Kirk: I'm going to hold that thought, because I think you're right. We're going into the lounge first. But they've traded, they've moved a couple of times. So they're now on 1625 Quadra Street. I talked to Ted, but then I go into the lounge. So we're going to do this in reverse, right? We're going to do the Where's Waldo story about the boys in the lounge. So this is a smoking lounge. And, Ted, we'll get into Ted's story, but this Ted talks about it. So we're kind of doing things in reverse here. Which is kind of cool, but we start learning about some of these people's stories before legalization. So, in some of these stories, we go back to the 1990s on the streets of Vancouver, and these individuals talk to us. And. I do remind them a couple of times that I am recording this. So ethically I have their consent. Right? (BREAK OUT. So just to let you guys know, I have a recording going. I am interviewing Ted. Are you okay with the recording still going. Voices clarifying that it is just  audio?  Kirk yes. Okay) So they're talking about some criminal behavior in their past and how they came, into the compassion club. But also there's lots of conversations going around. There's lots of reefer being passed around. So the conversation you have to listen carefully.

Trevor: All right. Let's go find Waldo.

Kirk: All right, so we're sitting in the lounge at the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club, and I'm with, if you want to identify yourself feel free.

Shawn Shawn.

Kirk: Shawn.

AK Waldo I'll go with AK Waldo.

Kirk: AK Waldo? Where's Waldo?

Gord: I'm Gord

Kirk: You're Gord.

AK Waldo: And that's how people used to meet me we'd smoke a lot of weed. They would say, Where's Waldo and I smoke them a joint. But during that time they would tell me about the problem. There lots of street kids in town.

Kirk: Yeah,.

AK Waldo: And I used to go around smoking a joint and tell them about resources that were available for them to hit. So marijuana was always a sociable thing for me.

Kirk: Recreational. So you were smoking it as recreational?

AK Waldo: It was medicinal for me?

Kirk: Yeah.

AK Waldo: It was of course recreationally known. I 've been using medicinal weed since 12.

Kirk: Since you were 12. Okay

AK Waldo: I quit few times to prove that it was for medicinal reasons.  And then. Yeah, but no, I did it as a social thing. And then people smoke weed with them, and they talk about their problems, about their day and give them to the resources that they needed to get to you to make their day a little better. umm that's how I started out selling weed. Plus in a transient city like this, everybody asked the Street Kids where the weed was. So at that point they'd always say, Go find Waldo. It was a business sense as well.

Kirk: So back in the day. So back pre legalization this is the 19.

AK Waldo: Before legalization.

AK Waldo: 1990s.

AK Waldo: Like 2000s.

Kirk: 2000s?

AK Waldo: I first moved out west 97.

Kirk: 97.

AK Waldo: Lived in Vancouver. So yeah you couldn't walk ten feet downtown Vancouver at that time without someone trying to sell you a dime bag?

Kirk: Yeah, yeah, it was just everywhere.

AK Waldo: Yeah, it was everywhere.

Kirk: And was all local stuff.

Shawn: Ya. Home ground. It was a Cannabis Culture Lounge.

AK Waldo: BC. Bud. Bud capital. Oh, yeah. in 1996 man, Mark Emery won the cup with our BC Bud, Stopped at Number one went to the Amsterdam Cup and he won it.

Kirk: So were you growing back in those days?

AK Waldo: I was buying off Mark Emery back in those days. He sold me a lot of weed. He had a lot of good weed. I used to go through a pound of weed a day.

Kirk: Wow, that's a lot of weed.

AK Waldo: It was.

Kirk: In Vancouver

AK Waldo: Not in Vancouver. Here it was a 1/2 pound.

Kirk: Okay.

Shawn Remember him in the news? Yeah,.

AK Waldo: Like Granville cop station, the community police station, I swear it was put in because of me. And they could never catch me, but I'd be like.

Kirk: Are you okay with, you know I am recording.

AK Waldo: I don't give a damn.

Kirk: Okay.

AK Waldo: I've been caught twice,.

Kirk: All right.

AK Waldo: I've been slapped on the wrist. And every time I knew I was selling to a cop. And when I sold to the cop. They blew up my business card and drove me through downtown Victoria. Okay, you know, much more business that got me.

Kirk: Oh wow.

AK Waldo: how dumb are they? And then when I made the front page of the paper for Dial a Dope Dealer, AK Waldo. Dope Dealer. Yeah. The front page of the Times Colonist. Are they really that bord? I'm the top news story?

Shawn Yeah, yeah I remember those days.

AK Waldo: And all they did, they never got the money. Yeah they, I knew it was the cops. I buried their money once I sold it to them.  And then walk down the street and arrest me. But I took their money and spent it and all they did was slap me on the wrist to say, don't do it again.

Kirk: Well, that wasn't the dope story. I was expecting sitting in a compassion club.

AK Waldo: I have compassion. Lots of compassion.

Kirk: That's a very good dope story. thank you, do you have one?

Shawn  Yeah, I became a member and then later became I got a board member.

Kirk: Of this compassion club?

Shawn Yes.

Kirk: Okay.

Shawn And I volunteer.

Kirk:  a volunteer board member. Okay.

Shawn So volunteer. I volunteer and helping people who need help.

Kirk: With Cannabis? How many people on the board.

Shawn One. Two. I believe there might be five.

Kirk: Five. Okay.

AK Waldo: I was one of his original members.

Kirk: were you? Back in the day.

AK Waldo: Before he even had a shop.

Shawn Yeah, he's got low numbers.

AK Waldo: I got two, eight, one.

Shawn I'm 8000.

Kirk: Oh, that's your number? Membership number.

AK Waldo: 2, 8, 1.

Kirk: Wow.

AK Waldo: 281.

Kirk: okay.

Gord: 800.

Kirk: In the eight hundreds. Okay,.

Gord: I would love to stay and share a story. 

Kirk: Yeah. No, I've got to go also. But thank you very much. That's not that's not a cannabis story I was expecting, but that's was a good story. And you're a board member. Thank you very much for talking to me.

Trevor: Kirk. Those were an interesting bunch of guys. And so not quite the not quite the interview you're expecting.

Kirk: Well, no it wasn't. And I kept saying that to these gentlemen. I expected going to a medical lounge to learn about some medical conditions and some medical stuff. And, I mean, I'm with Ted, and as you'll hear in the next interview, my recorder is going the whole time as Ted is doing business. So, I walked into the lounge, put my recorder down. Ted's putting our poster up. Remember, this whole thing is about me distributing posters as well. And so, Ted's putting the poster on the wall, and I sit down, these guys introduce myself and say, hey, I'm looking for cannabis stories. So, this is Kirk looking for a cannabis stories. And those are the stories they gave me. And no, I wasn't expecting it.

Trevor: That. All right. So, should we go straight into Ted? You want to set up the Ted part of the interview?

Kirk: Yeah, Ted's a multi tasker. Right. And he says so. And obviously they're short staff. They're in legal limbo. He gets into that. And again, I want to remind people, last time we talked to Ted, in E86, he was talking about a $6.2 million set of fines that they had when they were busted on Johnson Street. Well, as he said, there's been a couple moves since, and, and a couple of busts since. So, yeah and I walk in Trevor and I don't want to give it away. But Ted is busy carving up, I guess I got to say that the biggest, the biggest chunk of hash I have ever seen outside of a movie. Like this was the size of a small shoe box. And so I walk in and Ted's doing business, and this is our conversation, and let's just. Let it run raw and come out of it. All right, sir. Well, here we are back at the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club, founded in 1996 our third episode, talking to Ted Smith. Hey, how's it going?

Ted Smith: Life is interesting.

Kirk: Yeah. No shit, man. I mean, here I sit in a brand new store. You've had you still got the lawsuit going?

Ted Smith: Yeah. Yeah. A lot has changed, since the last interview. In fact, I think we've moved twice now. Since.

Kirk: Since Johnson Street?

Ted Smith: The last time, we talked on Johnson Street and. Yeah, we got evicted from Johnson Street twice eventually, but in the end, the building sold and we had to move out of the the space, rather abruptly. But, we found a new home. temperalory in the back of the building that we're in now. But, as of the new year, we moved into the front of the building and have this beautiful space to work in now.

Kirk: So this is, the owners allowed you to rent the space, or you guys buy the space or.

Ted Smith: Oh, we didn't buy it. Oh, God. No, we can't even get a bank account.

Kirk: Yeah, I guess so.

Ted Smith: Right. So. Yeah, we're just renting, and, we found, very friendly landlord, thankfully. And, steady as she goes.

Kirk: Okay. So you're cutting up some hash, is that like locally grown and, like, one of your grows? Last time I talked to you, you had specific growers you've been going to for the last 25 years or so.

Ted Smith: ya, no, In this case, it's a little different than what we normally sell.  This, from what I can tell, is hash from Afghanistan.

Kirk: Yeah. I was going to ask you about that, because I called that black hash. Black Afghani.

Ted Smith: Is the same hash that I sold when I was in high school 40 years ago.

Kirk: Yeah, yeah, and that would have been the hash I was buying 40 years ago. 

Ted Smith: Right. So, yeah, it's been a treat for a lot of us to have this around again.

Kirk: Yeah. No kidding. God, you think I used to buy slivers of that never saw that much, how much is that? That's.

Ted Smith: I'm not sure that might be a quarter pound here. Yeah, I was in high school my the beginning of my dealing was actually on Friday, I would buy, quarter ounce of this hash and split it into seven grams, five of which I would sell for ten bucks. Yeah. And then I would keep the other two grams for five.

Kirk: Yeah, yeah.

Ted Smith: And that was my weekend hash supply.

Kirk: Yeah nice, a lot of these old guys, that's how they supplemented their own habits.

Ted Smith: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The profits just kind of go up in smoke.

Kirk: Yeah, pretty much.

Ted Smith: So, yes, you asked the lawsuits are still, you know, pending.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: Nobody seems in a rush to go there.

Kirk: So they're just hanging around. They're not. They're not pushing you. There's not, like, a bunch of lawyers going.

Ted Smith: Yeah, we got raided last year when we first moved here.  So that was the third raid. That was, March of 2023. They haven't fined from that raid. From what I can calculate, if they used the same formula and do the same thing, which is to fine the society and me the equal amounts. We're looking at about a $20 million fine.

Kirk: No Shit.

Ted Smith: from the last raid.

Kirk: 20 million on top of the six that you still own them.

Ted Smith: Yeah, because they calculated not by only how much they seized, but what the sales were between the raids.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: And so they didn't raid us there for a couple of years.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: And so they just, like, add up the value.

Customer Daniel's Voice: Sweet Lord look at that.

Ted Smith: Right?

Customer Daniel's Voice: So that little guys for me?

Ted Smith: If you got the money.

Customer Daniel's Voice: Man, I wish I had lots of money right now. I would buy half that little junk.

Ted Smith: That's pretty awesome.

Customer Daniel's Voice: It broke a bit, its tempting oh wow.

Ted Smith: What's your number here Daniel.

Customer Daniel's Voice: 303.

Kirk: Someone become a member of the club? They get a number and.

Ted Smith: Yeah, it's. A person has to have proof of a diagnosis of a serious medical problem.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: It could be from a doctor, nurse practitioner, a natural path, even. Okay. But, you know, they have to do, can't just be by their word. There you go sir. Have a great day.

Customer Daniel's Voice: Have a good day

Kirk: So as long as they've got a prescription. So if I come in here and like, in Manitoba I have a prescription for pain.

Ted Smith: If you have a prescription.

Kirk: I can come in and like, I grow my own at home and I'm allowed to with the, with the license I have.

Ted Smith: Yep. Oh, yeah. That's way more legal than we are. Really, you know, more than even we would require.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: Like I say, we're kind of minimal. If a person comes in with the appointment with the cancer clinic, we'll take that.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: Because you don't get an appointment at the cancer clinic because you're curious?

Kirk: Yeah, exactly.

Ted Smith: Hi, there.

Customer Anthony's Voice: Give me, oh, 4880 Anthony. 14 grams Big Kush.

Ted Smith: Already then.

Customer Anthony's Voice: You don't have any kush hash, what do you have thats good?

Ted Smith: Mostly we're pretty good.

Customer Anthony's Voice: The black is hard, isn't it?

Ted Smith: Yeah. The black is this hard stuff. Yeah. So the. Yeah, I guess either the Barbie or the French fry. The apple fritter is pretty nice to actually.

Customer Anthony's Voice: Is it? The seven grams of apple fritter please.

Ted Smith: Now it's seven grams of the hash you asked.

Customer Anthony's Voice: Yes, please.

Kirk: So they can buy a shatter. They can buy diamonds. What's diamonds? Is that the crystals?

Ted Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Diamonds, are funny thing. They've, they try and isolate the THC, and it turns into this clear sort of crystal. But then they actually take what they call the Terps sauce, which is the, you know, kind of the oily stuff that they've separated, and then they, like, reintroduce it together.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: typically because just smoking THC by itself isn't that great. A little bit of terpenes makes a world of difference.

Kirk: Sure.

Ted Smith: But, you know, we don't have, like, every type of concentrate out there, but we've got a pretty good selection of them.

Kirk: So growers bring it to you that way you guys make it to like. Like they bring you the kief.

Ted Smith: The growers bring the kief. Yeah. So $127.40. Yeah. Although some of the kief comes from other people that like specialize in making kief. That will get leave from different sources and we get the kief from them.

Kirk: So they get to share.

Ted Smith: Most of our growers are kind of small ma and pa type. And they can't grow enough to make hash. So yeah, there's certain benefits and, and pros and cons to working with small scale growers. $127.40.

Customer Anthony's Voice: 127.40?

Ted Smith: Yeah.

Kirk: Okay. So obviously a steady place eh. People, come in here.

Ted Smith: Yeah, it comes in waves, but, yeah, we help a lot of patients out here.

We get your profiled. And that way we can help people if they want to get the same thing as last time or not same thing.

Kirk: Right. You and your. And you're consistent with what you can offer them. Right. That's the thing.

Ted Smith: We try. Certainly. You know with our edible products and such consistency is key, right. But, you know, when it comes to smoke products, a lot of patients like a bit of variety. But one of the benefits of working with, you know, these kind of small scale growers is that there is some consistency with the strains.

Kirk: Right.

Ted Smith: A lot of the bigger operations tend to be constantly putting different things through them and not growing the same thing for years. We have some strains that we've had on our menu at times for 20 years.

Kirk: The clones, the same clones, the guys grow.

Ted Smith: The same clones and our members just rely on that consistency quite a bit.

Kirk: So review, review what services you provide people here. Like what is it the compassion club does.

Ted Smith: Well, we certainly provide information to people about how to use cannabis as medicine. Yeah. So, we provide information that's like on a really broad range. So, you know, we have a lot of people that come in here with a new diagnosis that don't know anything about cannabis or that everything else has failed and come in here, you know, very, unaware of the options. And even a lot of people that smoke cannabis don't know all the options that are available to them to, to use this as medicine. And so right now, like legally, unless you're paying a clinic to have access to a doctor, it's very hard to find a professional that you can actually talk with. Most of the LP's that do deal with medical now are strictly E-mails. So, to have a conversation which a lot of elderly patients want to have,

Kirk: Right.

Ted Smith: anxiety and stuff, they don't want to talk to human. A human with experience when possible. So, yeah, it's something that, you know, given them that education both when they join but ongoing as well. So a lot of our patients will, you know, change their medications over time. Either to find that perfect routine or their health changes over time as well. You know, things pop up. So. Yeah. And then, you know, one of the other things we should really specialize in what is in our product line. We have our own kitchen and make our own products and have like 20 different types of capsules that we make.

Kirk: Okay. So when Owen used to make it in his apartment, make his cookies, you guys.

Ted Smith: that was our apartment he was our employee.

Kirk: You are now cooking everything here. Is it now.

Ted Smith: Well not here. We make our, we finish the capsules here. We've never done the cooking in the same facility.

Kirk: Okay.

Ted Smith: So yeah, we have another place that we do the baking and bring it here.

Kirk: Okay. Now, did I hear you say, like, in British Columbia, if I want to go get a cannabis prescription, do I pay a doctor for that? Is that not part of your health care plan to go out.

Ted Smith: If you can find a doctor.

Kirk: Really?

Ted Smith: That will talk to you about cannabis and sign it. Yeah. Good luck.

Kirk: So you guys don't have clinics here at all? No medical practitioners help me here at all. And, because I think we talked about that last time. Yeah. So it's mostly all it's all people with experience, right? Mentors?

Ted Smith: Sorry.

Kirk: It's mentor learning. Mentor teaching.

Ted Smith: At the club you mean.

Kirk: Yeah. Yeah.

Ted Smith: Yeah. Like Julia, who you just met the manager, and she's got all sorts of experience with this medicine here, and, yeah, a lot of patients, you know, kind of rely on her to talk with the capsules or suppositories and different stuff like that. Thanks, buddy. So. Yeah. And even like the peer-to-peer support, that's why. You know, members educating each other on the smoking lounge, for example, talking about the products. So, yeah, the lounge is definitely another benefit that the club has offered that isn't typically available elsewhere.

Kirk: Well I was going to say that Victoria does not have a cannabis lounge yet. They had one.

Ted Smith: No in the past we've had a few.

Kirk: Yeah they've had a few. Yeah.

Ted Smith: We can pick up and go into the front office.

Kirk: Sure. So, so we're just talking about the club services. I mean we've talked about you guys, you provide suppositories here, and you make them.

Ted Smith: Yeah. We've got, like I say, a broad range of products. You know, some bunch of topicals and things that, are otherwise, you know, difficult to find in the legal system. Even if at all and certainly, you know, we've got good prices for patients as well that make it affordable for them.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: So, yeah. And then, like I was saying to the lounge. Is a great benefit for, you know, a small number of the patients, the majority of them don't use the facility. But for those that do, the lounge is a great sanctuary. Even for us to use and feel safe and comfortable.

Kirk: So it's one of those, another one of those gray areas for you, basically. In the sense of the law. And so having a cannabis lounge is, there are no commercial cannabis lounges. Are there any in town?.

Ted Smith: There's nothing like it in the country.

Kirk: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what sort of basically it in the back of this room.  Have you done anything with the air exchange in there, or you just basically set up a room? You got a window.

Ted Smith: You didn't see? We put in a lot of ventilation.

Kirk: Okay. So, if people come in, you can say we've done our best to keep it in, healthy environment.

Ted Smith: Yeah. In fact, tomorrow, city bylaw officers coming here to discuss a number of issues. And I'm sure that will be one of them.

Kirk: Yeah, I've always marveled at that when I've talked to you about it. You've got the federal law, you got provincal law and you got the city law. And it seems to me the city supports you guys and just want you to want to leave you alone, let you do your business. The province would like to leave you alone but the laws dictate that they got to bother you, and the Feds just don't, well, the Feds care, but they can leave it up to the province. Is that a.

Ted Smith: Very good summary yeah.

Kirk: The province is just and of course, the Feds are not going there.  So the province,  yeah you're sort of just in this limbo land. And I mean, like, Owen was telling me before that the cops didn't want to do this, but they were obliged to because they stumbled upon it.

Ted Smith: Oh, well, with the bakery was certainly the case and even now, like, the local police don't really want to, do anything to me in particular, especially with all the other real problems that are going on.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: You know, we're a benefit to the community. It's really just the bureaucrats that are pushing this.

Kirk: Yeah. And I've always wondered, you know, government is always made up of people. So what is wrong with the people that work within government? And I guess it comes down to the lobbyists and the people that make the laws. So I guess I really do want to get back to the lawsuit. What do you what do you envision? What are they just going to ignore the lawsuits or somebody changes the law? Are you do you feel you're going to be going to court?

Ted Smith: Well, eventually we will get the court here. You know, things seem to be on the back burner right now. Which for us is, is relatively fine if we're not being hassle. And, you know, I would have thought that the government would have been pressing for it sooner than later. But I think the province realizes, that they are they may look very bad in this as well, because of the federal government's rules that they can't do anything about. And so, you know, they're not really, you know, pushing to, to get this to court either.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: Which leaves us in this, you know, somewhat awkward gray area that I've been working on for decades.

Kirk: I mean, the feds, the feds, the wording of the Cannabis Act allows for the concept of lounges. They leave it to the province to create the regulations.

Ted Smith: When it comes to lounges, the biggest authority that we're up against or the health authorities, which are in between municipal and provincial governments and almost have an independent power in and of themselves.

Kirk: Right.

Ted Smith: And so it doesn't matter. Or what the political flavor of the day is of the health authority decides that tobacco smoking has to end, then it does. And so, when I first started this work, the head of our local health authority, Dr. Richard Stanwick, had made a name for himself of being an anti tobacco, you know, doctor. And, he pushed hard for the changes and rules here in Victoria that first stopped it from being smoked in restaurants. And then all of a sudden you could do it outside in certain conditions. And then all of a sudden those conditions weren't any good anymore. And in the end, the country adopted a lot of the standards that were built here, first in Victoria, based on his work. And so when I start coming around and saying cannabis is medicine, he just took me for an absolute fool. And, you know, the health authority is typically, you know, completely opposed to allowing smoking indoors or in particular. And so, yeah, we've had very strong support from our local government here for changes to the smoking regulations, pre legalization even. But, the health authority is the stumbling block. And, oddly enough here, the smoking bylaws are even made by a regional district, which is again in between, you know, municipal and provincial kind of governments. And it's made up of a bunch of mayors and councilors from the area. And so any changes made to the smoking bylaws in town here, would actually have to be made for the entire region.

Kirk: That's the capital region?

Ted Smith: Yeah. The CRD. Yeah. So the CRD controls all that. And again, we're typically among more of the conservative politicians.

Kirk: Right.

Ted Smith: So that's very unlikely. There's it's very hard to pressure the CRD to do things they don't want to.

Kirk: Did they close all the cigar lounges as well.

Ted Smith: Ya that the ones I know about.

Kirk: And that surprises me because those cigar lounges, there's a lot of deep mining conservatives that were using those back in the day. So because I always thought cigar lounge, but the hell you know, just put in an air exchanger and let people have at her, you know, but yeah. Okay. So that's you're bashing at that door and you're bashing obviously being a non licensed dispensary still obviously. Yeah. It's you have this vision of the world though. And this is it becoming moving here. This is closer to what you had before.

Ted Smith: This facility here is a dream come true.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: This is everything that we've ever hoped to have.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: At least for a storefront in Victoria. You know, we have dreams of integrated quality of care facility in the future. But for the here and now, we couldn't imagine having a better space to do our work. And thats for sure.

Kirk: I'm wondering what the next step. I mean, I think we touched on this last time I talked to you was that finding a nurse practitioner or prescriber to work within it and having your cannabis clinics right here. I mean, in Manitoba, our pot docs just charged to the Manitoba health. Like when I meet my doc once a year to update my prescription. So getting a medicinal license doesn't cost me a cent. It goes on my Manitoba health. So that's universal health care. So I'm finding it interesting that doctors here are charging people for a doctor visit just because it's cannabis. Is that what's happening here?

Ted Smith: Typically it's pretty much impossible to get a doctor's visit unless you pay for a private clinic about anything.

Kirk: Really?

Ted Smith: Yeah. The doctor shortage here is pretty dire.

Kirk: So what visions? What new things have happened last three years? Two years? Like, besides. Okay, the lawsuit pending. You've been evicted twice. You guys are here in a wonderful new place. Yeah. You're close to your vision. You've got your lounge. Nice piece of hash sitting out there. Now, where's where's your next vision? What's what's your next plan?

Ted Smith: Well, honestly, at this point, we just want to survive.  Like the move in the back, hurt us in a lot of ways. With sales as well. And so, yeah, we've just been, scraping by here, paying for everything, and we've seen a bit of a rebound in the new space and it would be nice to see sales grow back up again. To help just to keep the place staff to do anything else.

Kirk: When they raided you, they raid you, they take your product, you take your cash, they just take everything.

Ted Smith: The first two times it didn't take our money. But then last time, the police actually decided in the middle of the raid, I think, to take the cash from me. They found that the CSU wasn't and so, the last raid hurt, for a few reasons. Partly because we had just moved into the back of the building and had yet to find the most secure places for everything to be stored. And so, they got us with, a lot of pot there. Okay. In a way, yeah. We've been struggling financially ever since.

Kirk: To get it back. 

Ted Smith: yeah. Just to keep medicine on the door or on the floor.

Kirk: And you said you can't get you can't get a bank account, but the treasury branches or credit unions help you out.

Ted Smith: Not with the buyers club, but like, I've got a couple of, you know, kind of number of company fronts going on. 

Kirk: right going that way.

Ted Smith: So, you know, we can do some accounting stuff. Bare minimum but enough to, you know, keep the hydro going kind of thing.

Kirk: Right. So that is there's the flow of money someplace.

Ted Smith: Yeah. Yeah we can do that. But it's not like yeah we can take a loan or, or go, do normal business.

Kirk: Yeah. So it's all, everything's by cash. So. Yeah. So like Colorado in the early days, you know, the banks, they now got banking.

Ted Smith: Yeah.

Kirk: They now have banking but in the early days it was just mounts of cash that we're going to some guys safe, but. Yeah. Okay.

Ted Smith: Yeah. It's very, old school like that. Still.

Kirk: Okay. Well, anything you want my listeners to hear or know about the, the compassion club, anything? I keep calling. I mean, you're buyer's club.

Ted Smith: Well, you know, that's the, the general term for medical clubs is compassion clubs. I probably would have even used that name initially if I'd even heard of it, that the only thing that I'd heard of was a buyer’s club. And so yeah, like I say, in a way, we don't have a lot of plans right now or just kind of, you know.

Kirk: Staying in limbo,.

Ted Smith: In Limbo. Keeping our heads low, until we get the, our day in court. You know, I have been a little nervous about the city here, so, hopefully, when the bylaw officer comes, that goes smoothly, and, but part of that will be to get the space rezone, because we have zoning in the last facility, but this is not zoned for cannabis retail. So, we need to do a few upgrades for fire and other issues. But then the space has to get rezoned, you know, working towards getting an exemption from a judge and potentially, you know, eventually licensed. And so zoning is something that needs to happen in one way or another. And so that will be an expensive process for the club. It's like $7,500 plus just 7500 to just to start the process. But, that's something that really has to happen. How soon it happens, I guess will depend on tomorrow's conversation, but, yeah, at that point, we'll have to be, you know, approaching your neighbors and, and city council and stuff to, to get zoned here, which, you know, hopefully isn't a huge battle, but, yeah, it will be some effort.

Kirk: Okay. So you, your goal is to be a medicinal cannabis dispensary I guess, because in Canada right now it's all online. So, you want to be the first brick and mortar medical cannabis dispensary. 

Ted Smith: A cannabis dispensary with a lounge attached because as far as I'm concerned, access, not only means a source but a safe place to use it.

Kirk: Yeah. Okay. But you don't want to be a recreational cannabis, like.

Ted Smith: No, no, no, we are sticking with medical here.

Kirk: And there are no laws. Like, there are no laws for medical cannabis dispensaries.

Ted Smith: Yeah, for some pretty questionable reasons Health Canada from the beginning has refused to allow storefront distribution of medical cannabis.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: Initially Health Canada said that, they didn't want to allow for redistribution to non-medical users. Well, now we have non-medical stores everywhere. And so the idea that there will be pressure on the medical store for someone to get it when they can get it anywhere else doesn't hold water anymore but Health Canada's still sticking to the that.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: And that's their only point. But they've lost in court now. And, recently, the report that was, done by Health Canada's experts, recommended, amongst other things, that, a pharmacy tape approach should be done for medical cannabis, which is a great ideal. A pipe dream even. It is a very, very far, way from becoming a reality.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: Because of the amount of regulations and rules and research that would need to be done for the pharmacies to feel safe to, you know, tell people what all the possible drug interactions will be and all the possible uses of it and stuff. So kind of, you know, their recommendation was based on the fact that, storefront access is a necessity.

Kirk: Yeah.

Ted Smith: Mail order is inadequate. And they accept that they state that. But their solution is just, you know, nowhere near happening. And so, it's, something that. Yeah. And, you know, we consider this to be inevitable, and we see no reason why our compassion club should get shut down once that eventually other medical storefronts could be allowed to open. We have a very special community here. Willing to transition over to the system if it's in the best interest of our patients.

Trevor: it's interesting frustrating. So many emotions about, you know, the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club can't seem to be fit into, we'll call it the non gray world. He can't seem to be fit into the legit world, even though cannabis has been legal now since 2018. You know we're six plus years and all they're trying to do is help people and aid, you know, the busts and the raids and the lawsuits. But also, when you and Ted were talking about how, medical professionals not that they're anti medical professional there, but medical professionals don't really seem to fit into what they're doing to help people either. It seems. You know, they seem to be kind of just on the outside of everything.

Kirk: Putting my nursing hat on, you're you're correct. The thing that frustrates me the most, and the reason why I keep going back to this organization, is because the man has a vision and he's a consumer of cannabis. He's explained to us in his past. He's had he's had friends and relatives, who have benefited from it. And he's trying to he's trying to help people use cannabis. And what fascinates me about the BC story, and he kept saying this because we've mentioned some of the interviews we did and how we know that there are cannabis doctors in British Columbia. But, his whole point was that, yeah, no one can find a family doctor. And if you do find a family doctor, they're not going to prescribe cannabis for you. And if you don't want to find a cannabis doctor, then you got to go online. And those are the. Hello. HelloMDs. And we've talked about this before, how they bill and I don't know how they bill and I'm not sure if Ted knows how they bill because I know in Manitoba, our friend Shelly Turner bills the government for the visit, so I can't.

Trevor: Yeah. And without casting dispersions on HelloMD, because we talked to a few of them, but especially if you're sort of a national group of doctors or a national group of prescribers, some provinces you'll be able to bill for. Some you won't. Some where the butt of the practitioner is. Sometimes it's where the butt of the patient is, especially if it's, So I and I don't I won't claim to know all the ins and outs, but I think at least some of them just make it easier for their bottom line, then instead of trying to drop through the hoops to bill their local health authority, they just bill the patient.

Kirk: Yeah.

Trevor: Which we can argue about, whether that's good, bad or indifferent in the Canadian system. But you can see why if it's difficult to bill Nova Scotia Health, then, you know, if you're running it out of Nova Scotia, may just bill the patient and not worry about that.

Kirk: It's a gray area. The Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club, they're definitely in a gray area because in Manitoba I have a medicinal license and it gives me privileges and I'm allowed to grow my own medicine. In British Columbia. I don't think a lot of people go and get the medicinal license. I think it's easier just to go down the street to the local compassion club and get it. And it's a real shame because as a health provider, if I lived in Victoria, if I could afford to live in Victoria. I think I would like I would like to think I would be working for him as a nurse and trying to help. But I'm not a prescriber, right. So it's a shame he doesn't have prescribers. But again, the model is such that if you did have a prescriber. They don't get cannabis from medicinal shops. They get cannabis from people they've been buying from forever. It's kind of like the Haida Haze story I'm going to tell, and in the Road Stories that we're going to record later on. So the guy definitely has a model that frustrates government. And it's a shame because I've written about this. It's on our blog page. I think the guy's doing good. And, it's a shame that he can't seem to get it, I don't know, it's a shame that they just to leave him alone. You know, in past episodes. The municipal government leaves them alone. It's the provincial government that's giving them a hard time. And I can't help but think that they're going to. They're going to fine this guy so much money that it's going to be ludicrous, right? So at some point, someone's going.

Trevor: it already is.

Kirk: 20 million bucks. I mean, it's I don't know. It's a compelling story. I hope to continue going back and getting stories from Ted Anyways, it was a good interview. Thank you. Ted. I mean, as much as I have fun. But you know what I learned about, like, the lounge story and talking to Ted this time as Ted was doing business, is that, they don't take themselves that seriously day to day, but they're really taking themselves seriously in the job that they do. And, and that's what I like to tell. I like the fact that there are people out there that know cannabis and are supporting people that use cannabis, and from the amount of stories we've done in the past seven years, I know intuitively as well as quantitatively, people are benefiting and people are benefiting from the Victoria Cannabis Buyers Club. So I want to keep telling stories about them.

Trevor: Absolutely. No I agree. It sure seems like there should be a way to, lack of better word, legalize what they're doing, because it sure seems like they're helping people. It seems like we should be able to massage them into some category, but again, that's they don't get they don't ask you and I about how that how that's all going to work. So, anything else to wrap up this one before we go prepared another one for the for the fine folks.

Kirk: So this was this was a good story. I'm Kirk Nyquist, I'm the registered nurse, and I saw the biggest chunk hash of my life.

Trevor: I'm Trevor Shewfelt I am the pharmacist.

Kirk: You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to send Ted out a message. I would like a song by Dead Bob again, we played a couple of episodes ago. We were playing Dead Bob and these are, this is a high school friend of mine from NoMeansNo. John Wright and his band, Dead Bob. And this is out to, to Ted. You know, Just breathe, Ted. Just breathe. So the song is Dead Bob's Just breathe.